From Early Sales Hustles to Overcoming Personal Adversity with Nick Verzillo

[00:00:00] John Morris: There’s a strong chance you’re not that far off from winning in business and at the game of life. It just takes one idea, but you gotta have unwavering belief and burning desire. If you can couple that with a lockdown strategy, that’s fueled by heart, hustle and muscle, you got a shot at winning. There’s one thing that all champions have in common.

[00:00:22] They get shit done. So welcome to the get shit done experience.

[00:00:30] we are back at it again. This is the home of the get shit done experience. We’re back in studio. I am here with the one and only Mr. Nick Verzillo, the director of sales for GSD Technologies, but he’s also, as we go through this kind of this thing with our brand, where we are bringing all three brands into one, one call tons of different solutions, Nick is playing a part in the total brand experience.

[00:00:57] Nickel, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Look at you with that shirt on too, man. You dressed up today. 

[00:01:03] Nick Verzillo: I try, 

[00:01:03] for 

[00:01:03] John Morris: you. I can’t believe you shaved your head just to look like me. Took the whole thing off. It’s amazing. Had a full mullet. it was amazing. Full mullet, had a perm.

[00:01:12] It was crazy. Yeah. You look great. I wish. All right. just before we got started here recording, we were talking about, Hey, what should we talk about today? And I think what makes the most sense for us to get into is a little bit of like your journey into sales, like how you started out in sales.

[00:01:27] And I think it’s interesting because you you’re like the ultimate sales professional that if I was going to hire somebody for sales, I would ask the question, like, how do you handle setting goals? And the, your kind of philosophy on that is just go buy it. I’ll figure out how to sell and pay for it.

[00:01:48] And just don’t show my wife. that’s like the ultimate thing. Like I had a, a boss coming up in sales. It used to always, he was always persuading us to go buy a bigger house, go buy a bigger car. And I was like, why is he doing that? And then And a sales pro head who had heard his lessons and his jargon for years is he’s just trying to get you into debt.

[00:02:08] The best place for a salesperson to be according to a sales manager is to be in debt. Okay. So I digress. tell us a little bit about how you got started in sales. Sure. So 

[00:02:20] Nick Verzillo: let’s see, I was, what, 16 years old, and a buddy of mine was selling cell phones at a mall. out of the, one of those yeah, the chaos, right?

[00:02:28] Yeah. And those guys that keep coming up to you and you’re like, it’s so annoying guys. So I get the Israeli, skincare guy. Yeah. We’re all, yeah. All owned by, Middle Eastern companies. And, so like he calls me, he’s Hey, why don’t you come in? It’s commission only. You make some money, you’d have a good time.

[00:02:44] I’m like, sure. Why not? At the time I was working at my cousin’s auto body shop, just washing cars, stuff like that. So I’m like, okay. So I go there and first week I made 600 bucks. And I’m like, what the heck, yeah, I was, 17, 16, I’m like, it’s great. we’re the guys who are out there and we’re telling you, hey, we’re literally greeting, we call it greeting, right?

[00:03:06] So we’re out there, we’re pulling people over and I learned really quickly that, I’m like, wow, man, I could just come in here. I could just ask people to come in and make some money. little did I know that we ended up opening up nine locations. and I worked there for a few years and we just, we were just selling, phones, accessories, this and that.

[00:03:24] And the owner of the company came up to me, he’s Hey, I want you to be a GM for the company. And I’m like, okay, cool. So we ended up getting a big salary and we’re running the company and doing everything there. And it was great. I loved it. I was in college still. And then I was like, you know what?

[00:03:37] I’m like, I’m making good money, but in the end, is this the future? I don’t want to be a retail sales individual. so from there, I went into, just selling a, staffing services, right? I got a phone call from a company to come and do a commission only too. And it’s funny, when I got there, they did a Shark Tank interview, right?

[00:03:56] So I’m, now I’m, what, 20 years old? I’m in this room with a bunch of seasoned staffing professionals and they’re hammering me with questions left and right and I’m just completely Underwater. I’m like, I don’t know how to answer. They asked me which movie describes and I’m like, what? I don’t even know.

[00:04:14] And, they didn’t call me back. And I’m like, I don’t understand. I went through all that. I feel like I did great. So I kept calling him, emailing him. Guy calls me and he’s hey, he’s we don’t think you’re going to make it in this business. But we’ll give you a shot because it costs us nothing.

[00:04:30] And I’m like, I got really offended by it. 

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[00:05:13] Get back your time and your money with GSD drive business forward. Leave the technology, the GSD, gsdnow. com. He did the hard takeaway on you. So 

[00:05:24] Nick Verzillo: I’m a young, I’m a young, confident individual, made good money in sales. I’m like, I could do this. No problem. Best 

[00:05:30] John Morris: thing to tell you is you 

[00:05:31] Nick Verzillo: can’t. Yeah. So I’m like, yeah, I’ll take the job.

[00:05:33] so I go there and struggled really bad the first couple of weeks because you really have to learn, in staffing your, what you don’t, people don’t realize is it’s a bigger picture. You’re changing people’s lives. It’s not just making money on a, a staffing opportunity.

[00:05:48] So I struggled and then I went to the talk tracks and they had they had their own phones. They’d hear you. They had headphones. They’d hear you talking. They’d be yelling at me, like showing me they’re writing stuff down and say this. Yeah. Yeah. So four weeks in I get a deal and I make, a 4, 000 and I’m like, Oh, okay.

[00:06:07] hit 

[00:06:07] John Morris: the jackpot. 

[00:06:07] Nick Verzillo: You’re like what? 21, 22. I’m just 21. Not even 21. I think I’m still under 20. I’m 20. So do that. Then second month in, much, how much bottle service I can get with that check. I’m definitely going. I’m definitely going out this weekend. Yeah. second month in I hit another deal, but now it’s my own deal.

[00:06:27] So I get 13, 000 and I’m like, holy cow. this is, crazy. But I’m selling financial service staffing, which, is great, but it’s also not something that I was enjoying. So I get a call from an IT staffing company, from smart source and. The owner calls me, he’s Hey, I want you to come do, come sales for me, but you got to work your way up.

[00:06:47] You got to start from the bottom. And I’m like, cool. And he gives me a 2, 500 a month salary, which at the time was not a lot. Big risk. But you weren’t straight 

[00:06:55] John Morris: commission anymore. No. You’re like, okay, you got a little guarantee. I’m 

[00:06:58] Nick Verzillo: like, and he was a growing company. He’s Hey, we want to add people.

[00:07:01] So I go there. And little do I know, I get hired with three people. We sit in a room and he goes, okay, so one of you is pretty much going to make it. And I’m like, man, this again, what did I get myself into? so I go in there and I just, we just, we’re calling you also in the movie boiler room.

[00:07:16] I felt like it. Yeah. Yeah. So we’re just calling people and we’re just going through it. And I was the first one to get a deal in the first 90 days. it was it services, And I worked on the bottom. I did project coordination, I did staffing, then I started selling. And then I ended up getting my first deal with a new account, and then I ended up bringing the account back alive, and then from there I just took off.

[00:07:39] And, worked my way up. So I went from, like business development representative to an account executive, and then I went to a senior sales manager. And then at some point I had about, I would say, I think I had six or seven sales individuals under me, and, we grew the company by like double.

[00:07:57] it was awesome to experience that. And what I learned the most is You know that knowledge that I experienced from growth of a small company was you can’t teach it in college You can’t you know, that was the biggest Honestly biggest benefit, forget about the finances of it Like that was what brought me to a next level of sales where now I’m getting calls for vice president roles And because I had so much knowledge and experience and when they would ask me like, what do you would you do?

[00:08:20] And I’m like, not what would I do is what we did, right? And so that’s when I’m gonna duplicate that in my way, right? So then that’s You know, after COVID hit, went through some struggles, right? But we ended up doing okay. I got a call from a company for a vice president role. And I took that role and, From there, I transferred into a whole different model, right?

[00:08:38] It was a 450 person company, very corporate, and I learned really fast that, it’s just not something that, was necessarily for me, not that it wasn’t a great company, but I personally strive under where I can sit with a CEO and have a conversation and be in consideration for my thoughts and my ideas versus just do it the way that we’ve done it because we’re so big as a company, right?

[00:08:59] Because I think even if you’re big, you still run as a, business operation because you still have regions and things like that. So, from there, I was working with Tim. So Tim was actually, owner of GSD, was a client of mine for about eight years. And we were talking back and forth. And finally he came out to me and it was like Christmas time.

[00:09:18] So yeah, let’s go get some lunch with my team. And I met Amy and sitting there and, we’re talking. He’s why don’t you just come join forces? we’ve been doing, working together. We’ve thrown deals back and forth. And. And I was like, all right, cool. Yeah, let’s think about it.

[00:09:29] And then we took us about six months to really get it together. But, once I saw his vision, it reminded me of SmartSource. It brought me back to, because the reality is I want to be of value. You’re a builder too. You like to build things. I like the challenges. I have, for me to be in a company, that’s just already, it’s already self, I shouldn’t say self made, but it’s already completely ironed out.

[00:09:50] I just don’t, 

[00:09:51] John Morris: I don’t function. You don’t, and I’m, with you. I, like the idea of working a system. There’s no doubt. And I certainly appreciate an organization that has systems controlled the procedures in place that you can just plug and play right next man up. Just put somebody in, Hey, here’s the playbook, work the system, go get it done.

[00:10:09] But for me, especially where I am in my process, and I think you’re very much the same where you are in your life. You want something bigger, you wanna put your footprint on it, you want to put your stamp on it. Sure. And you want to play a part in the total brand build, not just working the role. Yeah. I think that’s pretty cool.

[00:10:27] Nick Verzillo: And one thing about Tim is all he talked about was growth in that meeting. And at these other companies, yeah, of course growth’s a part of it, but it was never like. We will do whatever it takes to get to where we need to be, right? That’s our mindset is growth and that’s it.

[00:10:40] And that’s where I feel like is, my most excited, part of the business. and truthfully, you take the finances out of it because in the end, yeah, you can go somewhere, you can get paid more money or whichever, right? But my most rewarding part of the business is watching a sales team grow and watching them succeed and do what I did or even better than what I did.

[00:10:59] That’s what I’m trying to accomplish at this point in my life. And that’s where, for me, this was the best fit. 

[00:11:04] John Morris: All right. So get shit done, right? get shit done. Technologies, by the way, GSD technologies is currently hiring. We are building a team of salespeople. So if you’re listening to this and you are in a role and you think to yourself, I’m not so sure this is my, journey.

[00:11:21] I’m not so sure this is my destination. Listen to the passion and energy in the voice of Nick people. People want to go work for people, not necessarily a product service or brand. you need those, but ultimately the biggest thing is people want to go work for people. So if you’re listening to this, you’re thinking, Hey.

[00:11:40] maybe I want to go work for somebody I think has the energy I have, has the passion I have, and I want to be part of building something GST technologies is in fact hiring. So we will put some information in the link below, where you can look into that. So I want to get a little bit into Nick that, you have been, you’ve been a top performing salesperson.

[00:12:05] But here’s a really cool thing that I want to highlight about you were not Asking for the opportunity to become a, a manager, you were just a leader by nature. You weren’t going to ownership saying, Hey, I want to be a manager, right? You were a top performer. Your peers went to leadership and said, That guy should be our supervisor.

[00:12:32] How the hell did you pull that off first? And what is the secret sauce to that? Because I think there’s a lot of people that aspire to be in the role and they ask for it. But they don’t live it. You were living it and your peers recognized it so much that they actually were the ones requesting you. I can’t imagine a peer requesting their peer to be their supervisor.

[00:12:55] That’s pretty freaking cool. Yeah. How did you do that? 

[00:12:59] Nick Verzillo: Yeah. Look, I think in the end, I’m, I genuinely want to see people do well. and I, so how it happened. I helped everybody with every step of the way. I never once turned down a phone call, never once, if I was busy, I’ll get back to you and I always help them and they would always come to me with questions and they’re like, Hey, in the realities, I did it.

[00:13:15] So I had the answers most of the time, right? And I, don’t hold back knowledge. I don’t hold back my experience. I don’t hold back anything from anybody because I, don’t know what you, why, what value is that for yourself, right? So when I was there, over the years, people coming in struggling, I didn’t want them to go through my struggles.

[00:13:32] So I would explain to them what I did at that moment, how I got over those, obstacles. and in the end, they just gravitated towards me. and also, When you’re performing and you’re doing it and they’re seeing your numbers and they’re seeing what you’re making and you don’t want to duplicate.

[00:13:45] Yeah. They’re like, he’s doing great. what is he doing? And I was, a hundred percent open to it. And so that’s how that came about. and as far as the situation itself, it was probably one of the most rewarding parts, to see CEO saying, you can’t look for somebody else.

[00:14:05] This is the person, this is it. and I think it all goes back to my upbringing. I watched my father work construction. I watched, him, him works, four o’clock in the morning, leave the house, sleeping at the kitchen table after dinner, and I knew I didn’t want that in my life.

[00:14:23] But he instilled this work ethic in me. And it was like, nobody’s going to give you anything. You got to go out there and get it. the reality is, my father was, you should have been a doctor and he would always, we would always laugh. And I said, I’m going to make a lot of money.

[00:14:33] Like I promise you. And that’s what sales was for me. And I took that work ethic and I put it into a sales situation, right? when people saw me in the office, don’t get me wrong, I laughed, I joked, I, we, I had, I built camaraderie with the team, but they saw me working and that was it.

[00:14:51] I was always on the phone. I was always texting. I was always flying out to, I used to fly every two weeks at some point, right? And they saw me living and breathing and I was able to transfer that to them. 

[00:15:02] John Morris: What’s the best advice that your late father gave you? Because I’ve talked to you several times, and we have that in common, that we both lost our fathers.

[00:15:10] It’s tough when you’re in your 40s, you hope that you have your father when you’re 60 something. they’re seeing your, kids growing up and all that. So we have that in common that I think we’ve got a piece of us missing that we’ve bonded over. What’s the, best advice?

[00:15:28] Let’s play some tribute to the pops upstairs. What’s the best advice that your, father gave you with it that lights you up that you use and you’re very thankful and have gratitude that he gave you that advice. So 

[00:15:43] Nick Verzillo: I’m going to, I’m going to, set the stage, right? So my father is an immigrant from Italy, right?

[00:15:47] So a man of few words in the house, the life of the party outside the house. And I said that because with a name like Verzillo, I would have thought 

[00:15:55] John Morris: you were Irish. 

[00:15:56] Nick Verzillo: Okay. Italian shocking. We learned something new every day. what he taught me was the one thing that always sticks to me is, people would talk and they would argue and this and that in the family or whatever.

[00:16:06] And he’d always tell me to be quiet. Just say, be quiet. And, I’m like, I always thought it was because, he doesn’t want me to be involved or whatever. And one day he’s listen, he’s the guy who is the loudest person, the guy who is talking the most is the guy that doesn’t know anything.

[00:16:22] the people who sit back and listen are the smartest people in the room. And, he didn’t say it in that way, but that was the advice that he gave me. And what I learned in sales was that’s 100 percent correct. when you sit back and you listen to people and you understand their pain or you understand what they need is when you succeed.

[00:16:40] It has nothing to do with, don’t get me wrong, there’s a personality, there’s a skill set to it, all that stuff. But, I’ve never, that’s never left my mind is that, when you sit back and you let people talk and you let them open up to you. Then you’re going to become successful because you’re going to become not only you’re going to become their partner, right?

[00:16:56] You become, it’s a relationship. You become a friend. 

[00:16:58] John Morris: Yeah. I think figuratively, like from an example, in a setting like this, let’s just pretend for a second that I was the salesperson. You were the prospective customer. Just this naturally. is combative. It’s me versus you.

[00:17:17] Sure, right? So that philosophy I think is really brilliant And I think it’s great for leadership, too But it’s the philosophy of trying to get on the other side of the table where I’m next to you So look we’re looking at the problem with each other Right and in order to do that you have to hear and listen to what somebody is saying on a deep enough level that You can ask why that’s the case You How is that impacting you?

[00:17:45] How does that make you feel? And that is the figurative or example of you moving on the other side of the desk next to me we’re in a partnership. We’re working towards one thing So I think what great advice, because that’s it’s that’s also how you’re a transformational leader instead of a transactional leader 

[00:18:06] Nick Verzillo: Yeah, I mean look, I mean 

[00:18:08] John Morris: You can’t 

[00:18:08] Nick Verzillo: talk to somebody that’s the biggest thing.

[00:18:11] Yeah, you can’t I mean if you’re talking, what are you learning? You I mean, in sales, if you are not open to learning, even in your, even as a CEO, you want to learn, it doesn’t matter. that what he taught me was what transfer into sales. Then it just grew. And I remember, years ago, somebody taught me, you gotta be okay with awkward silence.

[00:18:34] You gotta learn to love it. And I was like, I don’t, I’m in sales. I’m this, I’m, selling, I’m talking, I’m doing my thing. And I learned really quickly that the minute that I asked the question and let There be actually a silence for a minute or so is 

[00:18:49] John Morris: when they just started talking.

[00:18:50] Here’s the cool thing about that too, Nick. It’s, that is a learned thing. It is not innate because innately we’re, we have a lot in common. We want to be the life of the party. We want to, add to the conversation. So when socially the two of us, we’re like going just all over the place. But I’ve seen you in a setting where you’re with A customer and if a lot of flip of the switch goes off where you essentially just tone back that I want to say something and you turn it into, I really have to listen to what they’re saying right now so that I know where to guide them.

[00:19:28] So they say the next thing and the next thing. So when you do finally speak, you’re speaking on their level about the thing they’re 100%. 

[00:19:37] Nick Verzillo: the, I think one of my biggest. I guess my best one of my best traits I should say is I’m very calm in a meeting. I’m not, in the beginning you get nervous, of course.

[00:19:51] and, but I’m very calm. There’s really nothing intimidates me. And, the reality is, going into a meeting, it’s if I come in there, And I’m on your level in terms of understanding the business, in terms of understanding your needs and what’s important for you. Okay.

[00:20:08] then we could talk what makes sense. I could bring value to a conversation, but if I’m in there and I’m talking too much or I’m too excited or my energy is different, you have to match the energy. that’s the reality, right? In sales, in some point you’re a chameleon, right? Of course. once people’s high energy, I’m high energy, right?

[00:20:23] But the calmness is what helps drive and bring it back to, okay, let’s get to the point that we need to. Let’s, make sure we ask the right question. Let’s make sure let you want to go and talk. I’m totally okay with bringing it three steps backwards after the, somebody talks and has a conversation with me, right?

[00:20:37] Because. What I try to do is I try to ask specific questions, which I think every salesperson is trained to, to get a response that you need to help drive the sale, right? But I also learned that you have to be able to say, Hey, that’s awesome, I hear you out, but let me ask you about this. Because otherwise you can totally miss the whole bulk of the reason that you’re there.

[00:21:00] John Morris: So let’s get into a little bit about what GSD technologies is doing. So you’ve been in the industry. What’s the unique differentiator? I know everyone talks about this and that and so on. And you could essentially, you could say that it’s a dime a dozen. You’ve got, the, one person shops, that’s a consultant too.

[00:21:20] And then you’ve got the huge firms that, are, Plug and play and can do everything for everybody else. And I would imagine as a buyer trying to put myself in the position of somebody on the other end of the, of the desk that it’s probably, challenging to determine who you’re going to work with.

[00:21:39] And when there’s so many options, it’s natural to want to make a decision based on price. At the end of the day, you’re looking for the best innovation, the best technology, best solution. But you also, especially the people that are making these decisions are looking for the best option as it relates to price.

[00:21:55] we like to think that we’re very competitive as it relates to price. we, we have other differentiators. However, what do you think are the things that cause us to stand out to our current customers and why other businesses that are maybe a year away from re upping a contract or changing or whatever it might be should consider looking at GSD as an option?

[00:22:23] I think it’s 

[00:22:24] Nick Verzillo: accessibility and reliability, right? And the difference is we have direct contacts, right? We are. our kind of tagline internally is that we’re, big enough to scale small enough to care. and, I’m not saying every MSP, but in a lot of the larger ones, you’re just, and you get assigned a resource and an account manager and they take care of you.

[00:22:44] And it can change because there’s a lot of turnover in larger companies at times, With us, you can call me directly. If you have an issue, you can call one of my engineers directly. we, keep the line of communication as open as possible. And then from a service standpoint, that’s.

[00:22:57] That’s, our biggest goal is to make sure that everything is up and running and maintenance properly. So you don’t have to call us. but if you do need something, we’re going to be there. We’re going to follow our SLAs. We’re going to go above and beyond if we have to. And by that, if it’s an emergency, it’s priority, we’re going to jump on it if we need to.

[00:23:12] And I, and then, lastly, I would say, we really strive to keep within our verticals and our skill sets. We don’t go above and beyond. We don’t try to stretch it because, look, everybody wants the business, everybody wants the money, but you’re just going to end up burning a bridge and really looking bad.

[00:23:28] And I could never put. a potential partner in a situation where I’m going to fail for them. you got to think I’m essentially acquiring an it company every time I get a partner. So I know that it’s critical. It’s business critical that the continuity is there. So we’re very careful not to say, Hey, we don’t do this.

[00:23:46] Here’s a partner that does. We can do this. We try to be very transparent in that sense. 

[00:23:50] John Morris: Yeah. Number one rule in sales. Tell the truth. Yeah. Yeah. honestly, yeah. 

[00:23:54] Nick Verzillo: Honesty is key. I, when you get yourself in trouble like that, it’s a small world, it’s a small network.

[00:24:03] what I’ve done in the past, I still talk to the people today. we’re still, we build friendships. And so I can call them and say, Hey, I need a help. I need help. and that’s one thing too, is we do work on a lot of referrals. We have a nice network built up.

[00:24:17] it’s a value that our owner’s been around for 16, 17 years, the company. TTSG is built up significantly so we can lean on those partners. But, imagine if you make a big mistake with one of those individuals, right? It can, go downstream very quickly. So we try to be, we talked about that 

[00:24:33] John Morris: in the last episode that, working a referral base and a network is an absolutely beautiful way to build a business because there’s that commonality, that trust built there.

[00:24:42] You can never say enough great things about yourself. It’s always better when somebody else says it about you, right? It’s also an accountability measure because, if somebody is going to refer their friend to your organization and say, Hey, look, I work with them, they do a great work and you don’t do the same great work for that referral.

[00:25:01] It not only is bad for the referral that you just took on as a customer, but you also just made the person who made the referral look bad. 

[00:25:09] Nick Verzillo: Yeah, we had a client we brought on. That had some challenges just technology wise and a lot of things need to be changed, right? And it was, listen, nobody wants to hear you need to do XYZ to get up to speed.

[00:25:20] You need to spend, 10, Nobody wants to hear that, right? But it was a referral contact. We do want to be careful. We want to make sure everybody’s whole. Most importantly, we want to make sure the client understands that what we’re doing is a necessity for them. It’s not because, we, just want to sell you something.

[00:25:37] And so we put in 185 hours into this client to bring them up to speed and where they need to be. So we went above and beyond and 185 hours of our engineering time. That we didn’t bill to make sure that they understand that we’re here with them We’re here to make sure that this works out the way that you expect it and moving forward Here’s what you’re going to need to do in the next three to five years.

[00:25:58] John Morris: Love it There’s always savings, but it’s about way more than savings alone total technology solutions group redefines managed print services Excellence is the minimum standard ttsg is a true managed print service provider Deeply understanding your technology and business goals. Your business is unique our solutions Current and future business goals.

[00:26:21] Our customer first approach empowers and delights TTSG can ensure your technology environment will scale as your business does. So as you navigate business and constant change partner with TTSG for premium advisement and seamless implementation of your technology goals, we set the bar high, your people deserve it.

[00:26:40] Peace of mind, powerful innovation. TTSG. com. we talk about having personal pillars. I think I’ve told you this. I’ve told the team this that might have three pillars. I’ve had them for a long time. mindset, behavior, technique, right? It’s just where I start everything. It’s like the foundation of everything.

[00:27:00] I just can’t find a way to get the behavior and the technique to work if I don’t have the right mindset, right? it’s just, that’s the first thing and I can, I catch myself when I’m having a bad day and I don’t turn to, what technique can I put in place to offset it? I turn to how do I get my mind straight so I can get to the other things.

[00:27:19] And that might be, a bevy of different angles that I take to do that. What are your pillars, whether it’s one, two, three, like core purpose values, what are some of the principles that you really lean on that are your guiding light? 

[00:27:32] Nick Verzillo: Yeah. for me, it’s all about setting the tone in the morning, right?

[00:27:36] I don’t necessarily have multiple pillars. I think I always just try to be better the next day. that’s, I keep it very simple. anything outside of my life, whatever’s going on, I don’t bring it to work, I could be going through all kinds of stuff. not to, say this in a proud way, but, I went to my father’s funeral and the next day I came in for my signing my paperwork here, right?

[00:27:57] And nobody had any idea, right? So when I leave my house, if I have to drive in silence for 20 minutes to get here to get myself corrected, I do that. And that’s, the reality is my biggest, goal is not to stack bad days together, right? So if I have a bad day, I have a bad day, the next day I’m gonna do better.

[00:28:15] And that’s how I drive my, my, my sales team. Always 

[00:28:18] John Morris: trying to start a new 

[00:28:18] Nick Verzillo: winning streak. Yeah, 100%. look, who wants to, fail, right? And when I say fail, it doesn’t mean sales. it could be in your personal life. So I try to always just do something better the next day.

[00:28:30] And I would say, secondly, being a good person is important. we don’t really hire, we hire people of course for skill and all that stuff, but it’s the integrity of the person. I want to know that you have the best interests of the client as well. and so that’s how I look at it too, is I am, I have to have that mindset.

[00:28:49] I have to go in there with, not only am I coming in there with a positive mindset about your business and where we’re going to be as a partner, but also, what should we be doing together, right? What’s going to benefit you versus benefit me? And find what makes sense for you. What’s the true solution?

[00:29:06] And so those are the things that I use every single day and I make sure that when I talk to the team they’re having a bad day. Hey, it’s a bad day. go after it. We’ll get it tomorrow. We got it. And that’s how I look at it. 

[00:29:16] John Morris: Okay. Can we get personal? Yeah. Okay. first couple of weeks I’m here.

[00:29:22] I come to find out that you’re a survivor of cancer, right? Not cancer, but a tumor. Tumor. Yeah. Okay. a brain tumor 

[00:29:30] Nick Verzillo: and, 

[00:29:36] John Morris: you get a phone call. You’re not feeling well, getting dizzy. Things are just not working. You go see the doctor. 

[00:29:43] Nick Verzillo: Yeah. 

[00:29:43] John Morris: Doctor says, dude, you got a tumor. 

[00:29:48] You got this mindset that’s like Teflon.

[00:29:51] Yeah. Tell us the story. Cause I, it took me back and it actually caught when I heard the story that you told, it took me back to go to myself, dude. There’s way bigger things in life. Get your perspective right. So while you’ve always had this mindset, your father and mother have instilled great qualities in you.

[00:30:13] You come from a huge Italian family. I think you’re cousins with every Italian person in the Chicago area and other places. Every time I bring somebody up with an Italian name, it’s yeah, I’m cousins with them. big family, big loving family. three kids, beautiful wife, college, sweetheart. 

[00:30:33] Nick Verzillo: technically 

[00:30:35] John Morris: high school, college.

[00:30:36] So you get this call, you’re at the doctor and, you get the, information. Where does the mindset go and walk us through how perspective changed? And you just said, I got to get shit done. So 

[00:30:53] Nick Verzillo: I have a daughter that was born 24 weeks, right? So she was in the NICU for five and a half months. her, expectations were not good, right?

[00:31:03] My wife, wasn’t, complications and her health was in jeopardy, right? So the reason why I bring this up is I want to explain where my mindset came from. so my daughter’s born 24 weeks. She’s in a NICU. We’re getting calls every day. She at some point got to an hour by hour expectancy for life.

[00:31:19] So I watched my daughter just try to breathe. That was the goal. The goal was breathing on your own, right? and so I watched her fight every day. And the doctor came to me and he said, Hey, look, man, he goes, Here’s what I need you to do. I need you to come in here every day. Positively, I want you to sing to her.

[00:31:37] I want you to hold her when you can. And I want you to always try to be, just be there for her. And I’m like, okay, I could do that. So I did that. I’d bring my laptop. I’d take my other kids, I’d put them to bed. I’d go to the hospital at 7 o’clock at night. I’d sit with her, I’d talk to her, I’d hold her if I could, sometimes she was sick, I couldn’t.

[00:31:55] I’d work when I, I couldn’t hold her. I would talk to her, I’d change her, all that stuff, make her better. I became and I guess the sales thing comes in, and I became like the guy in the house. I’m walking around grabbing the blankets, grabbing, I’d walk in there Nick, you don’t work here.

[00:32:09] No, they’re like, hey, what’s going on? I’m like, we got you the blanket you wanted. I’m like, perfect, thank you. I was very much included, right? yeah, so I’m not feeling great. I’m thinking I have allergies. I’m like, I’ve never had in my life, I’m very dizzy, tunnel vision, I was losing my balance, which is really weird.

[00:32:27] So one day I’m, getting out of the car, coming up from work and I lost my balance. I had to grab the door to hold myself and I was like, all right, like something’s wrong. So I call ear, nose and throat specialist. I go there and next week he’s we got to check your hearing, all this stuff. He’s you don’t have allergies.

[00:32:42] Like you’re, you look good. He’s but something’s, off. You need to get a CAT scan. I’m like, okay. So I go with a CAT scan. And he goes, yeah, you need to go like. tomorrow, now. Tomorrow. Yeah. So I’m like, okay. So I go, tomorrow, I go to get a CAT scan. I’m sitting there, I’m on my phone, I’m working, I’m emailing people, texting.

[00:32:59] The guy comes out, he, I, got I guess the technician, whatever. He’s yeah, I need you to sit down. And I was like, yeah, I’m not sitting down. He’s yeah, you should price it down. I’m like, okay. So I sit down, he goes, oh, you have a baseball sized tumor in the front of your head. And I’m like, okay, what do you mean?

[00:33:18] He’s you need to go to the ER right now and get an MRI to make sure it’s not attached to your brain. I’m like, okay. He’s do you know how many calls you need to drive there? I’m like, I drove here, so I could probably drive there. It was literally down the street. So I go to the, emergency room and I’m going to get an MRI and, I sit there and walked in by myself.

[00:33:37] Yeah. Whew. And so I go in there, I, first thing I do. And as I call my wife and I’m like, look, here’s what they found. I’m like, I’m gonna get an MRI, they’re gonna find out what the next steps are. they don’t feel like it’s gonna be a life-threatening thing right now. Soon as I hung up, I called my mom, I said, Hey, I need you to go to my house.

[00:33:58] My wife is a mess. Go talk to her. Here’s what’s going on. My mom, of course, breaks down. so I was sitting in the sitting waiting for my MRI, And, Walks in a brain surgeon, Dr. Osama Khan, he goes, Hey, I’m Dr. Khan, I’ll be doing your brain surgery. I was like, hold on a second.

[00:34:16] let’s take a step back. can we see some pictures first? I’m like, can we like get it out without a brain surgery? He’s yeah, unfortunately, man, it’s not going to happen. He goes, here’s the deal. Your MRI is going to take about an hour to get back results. I’m going to FaceTime you. We’re going to go over this procedure with you.

[00:34:30] And I’m like, so first thing I did, I go, what do I do? What’s the next step? He goes, step one. is that you need to go home, talk to your wife, take all of your finances, everything you have in life, and write it down for her because you might lose some memory. He’s Step 2, I want you to go and research doctors.

[00:34:53] I, I’m confident I could do it, but I want you to feel confident. He goes, and the last thing is when you come in here for surgery, you need to have the most positive mental state you’ve ever had in your life. The reality is you’ve got a 99 percent chance of survival. That’s the standard procedures. He goes, I can’t tell you if it’s cancerous, but I’m very confident it’s not.

[00:35:10] I said, okay, so fine. So I went to Rush, all kinds of places. after meeting with Dr. Kahn, I did research and everything. He was the director of neurology and he was just, I think you have to get a, good feeling about the person operating. It was my first procedure in my life. I’ve never had nothing.

[00:35:26] John Morris: Yeah. 

[00:35:27] Nick Verzillo: so you jumped 

[00:35:28] John Morris: right in, didn’t you? 

[00:35:29] Nick Verzillo: Yeah. Yeah. and yeah, so within two, we break a 

[00:35:31] John Morris: pinky first next 

[00:35:32] Nick Verzillo: time, Nick, something right. so within two and a half weeks, I had an eight and a half hour brain surgery, and going into it, I’m laying in there in the room and my wife is, and I’m like, I’ll be fine.

[00:35:44] we’re going to be good. I might just, just, stay positive. Just, and I had no idea. My mom didn’t tell me, but my whole family’s doing prayers and they’re all kinds of stuff. they’re all together that day. I had no idea. My mom didn’t want to scare me. She didn’t want, she didn’t want to overwhelm me.

[00:35:59] So it’s funny cause I’m sitting there and I’d never even put under before. Couldn’t, so I’m laying in bed and actually a buddy of mine’s wife was a nurse. she comes in, she was like a, some kind of management and then she walks in and she’s Hey, and I was like, so shocked.

[00:36:13] I’m like, what are you doing here? And she’s I heard about it. So I came up here and I’m like, oh, that’s cool. A very nice view. it’s awesome. She goes, you’re going to be fine. You got the best doctor. I’m like, no, I’m like, I’m good. And she’s you look good. I’m like, yeah, I’m good. Let’s get this done.

[00:36:26] Now, with that being said, I had to get a surgery from ear to ear. They had to cut me open and they had to pull it out because it was so big. But so they put the guys like, Hey man, I’m going to inject this to you through this, I’m going to press this button within about a few minutes. You’re going to be gone.

[00:36:40] And I was like, yeah, whatever. let’s go. he’s so injects me. I’m talking to my wife. Tell her I love her. I get it. Don’t I have no idea from 

[00:36:48] John Morris: yeah, we left it like you’re not thinking it’s just you’re out and then you back it in Blacked out apparently I 

[00:36:54] Nick Verzillo: was talking to them the whole thing.

[00:36:56] Yeah, so I don’t know so I get in the room The procedure took a little bit longer because it was a little bit attached. so there was some complications in that sense I did have some complications recovery the spinal tap came out so that’s very dangerous for your fluid, right? and then for some reason my salt spiked I got a fever And I actually didn’t know who I was, like I was completely, my wife was crying and my parents were there and they’re asking me who’s this, I told them that my brother was my dad, they showed a picture of my kids, couldn’t tell you who they were.

[00:37:27] So that went on for about three days and then one day I woke up and they’re like, who are you? I said my name, said everything, just all clicked, it hit, they’re like, alright, we’re gonna get you up and walk. I’m like, cool. Three days later. Three days later. So I got up, walked around the office, they’re like, oh, you’re doing great, you have a, they called it a.

[00:37:47] I forget what they called it, the way that you walk your, There’s a term they use, a medical term. Swag? No, it’s not. yeah. No, it’s Man, you got some swag. What was it called? I forget, but they, the term is like, you have a great, like a great walk. And, I guess looking back, I was trying to make jokes, but because I was so off, it was probably coming off as a jerk in a sense, right?

[00:38:12] but yeah, I started walking and then, they’d come and they ask you every hour, every two hours, what’s your name? Who are you? Your birthday? Why are you here? Where are you? And I’m like, I’m pretty sure I’m in the hospital because it says Northwestern. Like I’m pretty confident I’m here. and then by, so I went in on a Monday and by Friday I was like, Hey, I’m like, okay, yeah, you can, we’re going to get you out of here.

[00:38:33] And I literally was waiting for the wheelchair, like an hour, two hours. Like my wife, I’m like, get me out of here. I’m done. I took stuff off, walked right out of the front door. They’re like, yeah, you can’t do that. That’s like a liability. But, so going back to the mindset, watching my daughter fight for breath to me, this was, not, this is, there’s nothing, this was nothing to what she was able to go through.

[00:38:59] So I, was a hundred percent confident to be okay. Okay. I found out at the hospital that it wasn’t cancerous, which is, which is a great thing. I did lose my sense of smell. So that’s, probably awesome. Yeah. So I haven’t showered 

[00:39:11] John Morris: in three weeks. So 

[00:39:11] Nick Verzillo: that’s what I’m saying.

[00:39:12] So you could do it on my office. I haven’t made one comment. So no, yeah. So I, that is the one downfall. fortunately that was the only thing, which is great. I do get MRIs every year. but I can tell you quality of life is 100 percent better. I used to get headaches every day.

[00:39:32] like my eyes were always like watering, itchy, like all kinds of crazy things. It’s because the way it was sitting in my frontal lobe. So it was causing basically my brain to swell, pushing against and causing all those things to happen. yeah, I, I’m proud to say that I don’t have any cancer and everything went great.

[00:39:50] Everything leveled out, but if it wasn’t for my daughter, I don’t think that I would have been that person. I honestly, I don’t think so. I think I just completely was like, yeah, okay, what’s the next? What do I have to do? What do you have to do? What am I? What’s my future look like?

[00:40:06] John Morris: It’s amazing to see the struggle of other people, how it can inspire you to emulate that, but especially when it’s somebody that is so fragile. and so young and so early in their life and their human instinct is to fight still. Yeah. and when you saw that, so how did, how has that. I don’t know, redefined you, I guess we could say.

[00:40:33] Did you come out of that? Like you are who you are, you explain that, but this is something that is monumental in your life and the lives of everyone who is associated with you in some capacity. Even me just knowing you, it made me look at you a different way. this is a human who’s been touched by God, right?

[00:40:56] and had to have a mindset and every story that you’ve told me, including now, You talk about the doctor saying you must have a positive mindset that’s tapping into some universal positivity that obviously creates a better outcome. Okay, so you come out of that, you get back to it, you make career changes, life changes.

[00:41:24] How has that changed how you look at every single day every situation heck every customer challenge or customer being angry And you must look at it differently than you would have early on in your career where it may have gotten to you And now you see a bigger picture. Does that help you to get through?

[00:41:45] To a solution. Yeah, better way. 

[00:41:48] Nick Verzillo: I will say that would change so you know, it’s funny my my parents were always like, Oh, this guy’s, they got money, they’re lucky, this and that, they’re lucky, right? And we just got bad luck. That was always like the thing, right? If, if I didn’t have bad luck, I have no luck at all.

[00:42:05] That was like the conversation. That great cloud. And it wasn’t really money, it was more just like life in general, right? And that’s what changed, is I went from saying, Oh my God, what bad luck, to I’m the luckiest person in the world. everything I had, I’m lucky. I, my, we had to do IVF for my kids, my first, my twins, my daughter, even in business, I had deals that I get a phone call and I had this huge deal that just, I’m like, man, I’m, literally the luckiest.

[00:42:38] yeah. So now I don’t look at things in a negative mindset. Everything is I’m lucky. I’m lucky to be here first of all. This is all 

[00:42:45] John Morris: icing. 

[00:42:45] Nick Verzillo: Yeah, I’m, yeah, exactly. This is, now I’m just celebrating. Yeah. that’s it. I, truly don’t, I don’t stress. The only thing that I would ever stress in my life is my family.

[00:42:56] Yeah. That’s it. The rest of the, rest of the stuff, you can’t control, you can’t control so many things and That’s a big part of it is like I can’t control it, but I can’t control how I feel about it I can’t control what i’m gonna do every day, and yeah, I mean it just changed That was my mindset.

[00:43:12] My mindset was like man. I’m lucky that this is going on I’m lucky that people call me when they did welcome me for me to come join their team. I’m lucky that I got married the girl I married all kinds of things like When that changes when everything for me just settled and that’s when I got This kind of calm feeling about life and in that, it’s gonna be okay There’s really nothing that’s gonna take me down You know, and that’s just how I went into that situation.

[00:43:35] I do with every meeting I go in there and I’m lucky to be there. I’m lucky to meet these people even if I don’t win in business I’m learning from somebody i’m meeting somebody that’s going to potentially help me in the future. And that’s 

[00:43:44] John Morris: it Yeah, adversity doesn’t define you but it sure as hell shapes you 

[00:43:51] Nick Verzillo: Yeah, I mean I agree and I also think that I have a fighting mentality, right?

[00:43:57] I used to be short tempered, right? Even in business, right? I would get upset at a call. I go to the team. Why didn’t you respond in time? This and that. I’ve learned to take the call, fall on the sword, find out what happened, take a minute, write it down, call the team. All right, guys, let’s talk about it.

[00:44:14] What happened? and now you’re not blaming individuals. You’re saying, here’s what happened. What do we need to do to fix it? And more importantly, what do we do to make sure we do that doesn’t happen again? 

[00:44:24] John Morris: Yeah, that’s it sounds like something that happened to you. You turned into something that happened for you.

[00:44:30] Nick Verzillo: Yeah that’s pretty cool. One thing my mother taught me was, god only gives you the battles you can handle you know, and so I think I feel like it’s my job and i’m here to take on, you know I don’t want to sound too deep but to take on these battles like yeah I always you know, tell my wife like I got it like, i’ll handle it but you know in the end, I mean My biggest downfall is I don’t like to ask for help Sometimes you’re too proud, right?

[00:44:56] And that’s one thing that I try to change is because when that moment happened, I called everybody for help. immediately, what do you do? What should I do? What do you think? I was researching, whatever I could. and it helped me. And I realized, wow, people do, there’s, most people you meet are good people.

[00:45:14] there’s very few people that don’t want to help you. And that’s thing that, that I look at is that’s important in life. You just gotta, you gotta be vulnerable. That’s it. 

[00:45:23] John Morris: So let’s talk about big vision then. Cause we got through that. That’s your history.

[00:45:27] We’re here in the present with an eye on the future. Okay. So let’s talk big vision for a second. Where are we going? You’re steering the ship, my friend. Yeah. Where are we going, 

[00:45:38] Nick Verzillo: man? we have plans to double and triple the company. We’re going to bring all three in one house, in a few weeks.

[00:45:46] And, our goal is to bring the companies closer and create just a, a, monster. And, for me, how are we going to get there? it’s all going to be about the people we’re going to build. Unlimited opportunity around people bringing the company. And we’re going to, and we’re going to just continue to build and build and get to a point where we have a campus, right?

[00:46:09] where we have, the best technology, in our building so we can bring in clients and show them exactly what we’re talking about. and we want to build out just, some of the most technology forward buildings that you can see that you get excited about because, in the end, I don’t think anything’s sexy about IT.

[00:46:26] Or copiers, right? Or even marketing for that sense. But when you show them how it functions, you show them what we, use it here. we have scoreboards and we have, teams out there. We got, we have 30, 000 square foot warehouse of just, equipment, right? And if we could bring that to, to a great experience for a client, that’s, where we’re going.

[00:46:46] John Morris: I’m going to ask you two more questions. We’re going to wrap it up. And by the way, this has been a fricking awesome. Episode your story is such an inspiration. I’m gonna say it on camera. You light me up, dude Thank you. Your story is inspiring. I’m inspired by you I thoroughly enjoy working with you every day Sincere couldn’t be more sincere.

[00:47:06] If that’s from the heart mean it. so let’s start with this. best advice that you could give a salesperson and let’s say that they’re five years into their experience. So they’ve gotten through some of the, hell moments. They’ve had some glory. They’ve got some success. The ball’s rolling a little bit, but they know there’s a whole world out there for them.

[00:47:33] Best piece of advice that you as an expert would give them. I know it’s 

[00:47:38] Nick Verzillo: commonly said, but fail fast and fail forward. That’s it. you cannot grow, you cannot accomplish your goals, right? And even more, you can’t accomplish things you never expected to do if you do not fail fast and forward. I have failed so many times.

[00:47:56] It fueled me. And that’s the business. that’s anything in life. But for me, that’s what drove me. 

[00:48:05] John Morris: Yeah. And we always talk about in sales, get to the no fast. I think a lot of people want to get to the yes fast. I prefer to get to the no fast because I want to find my people. I think sales is about building a community of people that are your people. You need to be their people. They need to be your people. And sometimes part of that process is weeding out the folks that are not going to be your people and they just aren’t. There’s somebody else’s people and that’s the way the world’s designed.

[00:48:30] It’s an open market and people are going to do business with who they’re going to do business with, who they have commonality with. Who they’re going to get along with. And you can’t get along with every single person. So you need to find the nose really fast. and that would be in line with your fail fast, right?

[00:48:45] Get to the no, figure out who’s not going to be the right partner for you. And, understand that you always have safety in numbers. You always have the law of averages to work with goal. Don’t hang on that no go find the next person to say no to you and the next person to say no to you Because behind all those no’s is the really amazing human who’s gonna change your life Because you can solve their problem and they’re providing you the privilege of doing business with them 

[00:49:16] Nick Verzillo: Yeah, and one thing about failing forward right to break that down is like you lost.

[00:49:21] Why did you lose? Don’t use an excuse. Don’t tell me it’s because of the competitor undercut you, you got to understand the root of the loss. that’s when I say, fell forward, take that to the next deal. 

[00:49:33] John Morris: That’s it. All right. So we get objections. Of course we get objections all the time. And then rightfully In fact, I just posted about it today that, oftentimes we get an objection, not because we’re being objected to it’s because we don’t fully understand that. The layers of conflict and challenges that the human being on the other end of the phone or across the desk is dealing with, they don’t feel the trust enough or confident enough to tell you those emotional drivers, those things that are holding them back from saying yes.

[00:50:02] So oftentimes they will stiff arm you to actually let you down easier, right? Rather than telling you flat out, Hey man, you’re being a jerk. You’re pushing me. You don’t understand, right? They’ll just be quiet. We’re not take the call. So there’s always objections that are happening there. So there are people out there right now that are getting close to the buying process.

[00:50:27] They’re getting close to doing the research. They’re getting close to saying, Hey, look, we’ve got a current, MSP, managed service provider. we’ve got a decent partnership. But we should probably investigate a little bit and see if there’s a better opportunity out there. Maybe a better partner, better solution, something that’s more customizable, something that’s going to directly impact us on a higher level.

[00:50:50] What is the best advice that you would give to an IT decision maker? As to how they should approach that decision. And I don’t want to insult IT decision makers that in some way that we are experts and how they should make a decision. That’s not my intention. But I do think oftentimes we can, all of us, any of us can get pigeonholed into a way of thinking, right?

[00:51:14] So help folks that might be listening to this, that are IT decision makers. See it a different way and think a different way as they approach their next IT decision. 

[00:51:25] Nick Verzillo: I would say stripped on the finances. Take that out of the picture. That’s my first piece of advice because if you do that, then you look at the partner themselves.

[00:51:33] And the biggest thing that I think is, important is, this partner for me for the next five years? Because you have to look at where you’re going and do they align with you, right? You don’t want to outgrow your new partner. You don’t want to go into a transition and have to move over in three years, right?

[00:51:51] So I would say take finances out, right? Look at the partner. Look at does three years make sense? Does five years, ten years make sense? And then what gaps do they have that we need to accomplish, right? And those are the things that I would look at because in the end, everybody’s going to sell you similar services.

[00:52:08] They’re all going to talk. We’re a boutique firm. There’s all this other stuff, right? And I would say that, a lot of times when you look at the finances of it, it can it can blindside you, right? Because you’re like, oh yeah, they’re giving me a better deal. and then you sign it.

[00:52:22] And I’ve heard this many, times. yeah, they’re not even close to what it was talked about. So if you take the finances out and you look at the actual partnership side of it and where I can be in five years with this partner, then I think at that point, your answer. 

[00:52:35] John Morris: Let’s end with this.

[00:52:36] What do you want to, give gratitude towards? Who do you want to thank in your life if they’re listening? Cause I got to tell you, Nick, here’s, what’s going to happen. I’ve been doing this for a bit. Yeah. This is going to go out on social is going to go out and people that you’re friends with and whatever that you maybe haven’t talked to in a while or family members.

[00:52:53] They’re going to go nickels on a podcast and they’re going to click on that. And, they’re going to hear it. So let, let’s give a little gratitude and say, thank you to a few 

[00:53:02] Nick Verzillo: people. Yeah. obviously, my wife, my, my, parents, My family, my friends. I would say anybody who’s ever touched me in any way, right?

[00:53:15] And that could be for good or for bad. You’ve taught me a lesson that I’ve been able to take that in and build a good life for myself. without naming and going down this, Grammy speech, right? no, we’ll 

[00:53:26] John Morris: put it in the credits at the end, like a movie. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:53:30] Nick Verzillo: yeah, I think everybody that knows me knows that I’m pretty.

[00:53:35] I’m pretty transparent. I’m pretty accepting of everybody, every likes of the world and I can appreciate all the, diversity thrown at me, all the conversations and. good friends of mine. We’ve talked for hours and hours about life and everything. and that means more to me than, people understand.

[00:53:50] So anybody who I’ve had interaction with, it’s been great. It’s been a pleasure. and, hopefully it’s the same both ways. 

[00:53:58] John Morris: I have gratitude for being on this podcast with you at this moment and getting a chance to come in here every day, see your beautiful face and, go to battle with you.

[00:54:06] You’re a hell of a golf partner. The man can pot. He can putt and let me remind you, sir. You got shit done. Thank you. Thank you. Let’s go. Can your business handle 15 percent growth? If yes, you have to engage with 2020 design. They fuse data and creativity to stop the scroll, break through the noise and grab the attention of your future customers.

[00:54:44] 2020 design will create competitive, click worthy campaigns, design and build custom websites, spark your social media presence and structure email campaigns that get right to your audience, the decision maker. Let’s boost attention and awareness, which allows you to convert more sales. Check them out at 20Twenty Design.

[00:55:05] com. That’s the number 20 T W E N T Y design.com.