Superpower Storytelling with Stephen Steers

[00:00:00] There’s a strong chance you’re not that far off from winning in business and at the game of life. It just takes one idea, but you gotta have unwavering belief and burning desire. If you can couple that with a lockdown strategy, that’s fueled by heart, hustle and muscle, you got a shot at winning. There’s one thing that all champions have in common.

[00:00:22] They get shit done. So welcome to the get shit done experience.

[00:00:29] you find yourself back in studio with us. We are getting shit done. This is the get shit done experience. We also call it the gsdx podcast. By the way, check us out at www. gsdxpodcast. com. We are so thankful for all the support that we’ve been getting so far. It’s been really, amazing.

[00:00:47] In fact, I think that we’ve now hit a thousand downloads and views just in four short episodes for a new show. That’s pretty awesome. But, I’m sorry to drop that, but guess what? We have to get the show started now. And I want to introduce our guest who is an absolute. Expert in sales, by the way.

[00:01:07] He’s an author. He’s a world traveler. He’s highly educated. Wake forest, baby. Let’s go. Okay. And he lives in Mexico city. He’s from New York. And somehow he’s ended up in our studio outside of Chicago here today to talk about his absolute brilliance. Stephen Steers is the founder and president of Steers Consulting.

[00:01:31] By the way, you will see on screen if you’re watching YouTube, his website is up. I would highly recommend that you check out Stephensteers. com. That’s S T E P H E N S T E R S. E. R. S. dot com. All right. So there you go. there’s your ad read. I think that was beautiful. All right, Stephen, thanks for joining us, man.

[00:01:50] Thank you for having me. And you got a great voice for this. I appreciate it. Yeah. I, it’s, weird. My wife’s like, why are you in the shower pretending you’re doing a podcast? And I’m like, just be happy. I’m showering. practice makes perfect. Yes. I also don’t want to neglect the wonderful person that we have in the room here, the co host today.

[00:02:10] Miss Lauren Klass, thank you so much for joining. You always are, effervescent, would be the way that I would describe you. You’re effervescent. I’m loving that. Yes, great presence, so can’t wait for you to add to the podcast. Stephen, all right, let’s just get right to it. You woke up when you were about six years old and you said, dad.

[00:02:29] Mom, I wanna be a sales consultant. True or false? False. Hard. False. Okay. So I wanted to be a race car driver back in those days. Let’s go. Yeah. but Formula One or nascar, what, are we racing Would’ve settled for Formula One. Yeah. Oh, you would’ve settled . Yeah, but no, that, that didn’t happen to. Cause in New York city where I grew up, you don’t even get a license until you’re 18.

[00:02:52] Yeah. Why would you, right? I’ve got my druthers about that, but got my license at 18 I was not equipped to go be an F1 driver. So I quickly, went on to other things and had some fun with that. But no, at six years old, I was selling stuff though. Okay. Let’s go. So I think the first time I really got into selling anything was when I would go to yard sales and I would pick up something and then I would flip it.

[00:03:18] Yeah. A couple of bucks. I just liked it. That’s why I got candy money. Where did you get that concept of if I buy it for this and sell it for this, I make a profit? I don’t know. I wanted more candy. Okay. There you go. That’s where most motivation comes from as a child. I would do that. I would have Pokemon cards and flip those, get some Sour Patch Kids.

[00:03:36] Like it all started with a need, I think. So if we want to talk bigger with sales or doing sales well, which I’m sure we’ll get to. Oh yeah. Tim can definitely speak a lot to this. And we were talking about this before we started recording. You need to unlock pain. Thank you. And I think also as a seller or purveyor of services, there is a certain pain you have, which you may want to solve.

[00:03:56] So I think there’s a, there’s one thing people get into business for themselves about sometimes I’ve heard. It’s like you want to solve a past pain you had because you’ve experienced it intimately. So as a kid, I was broke. I wanted more candy. I didn’t know how to get more candy. My parents weren’t giving me any allowance at the time because I was misbehaving.

[00:04:14] So I was like, how do I do this? Do I have this thing? Let me get this here and get an extra two bucks.

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[00:05:00] Peace of mind, powerful innovation, TTSG. com. Full of sour. When did the, the. dream or the that kick point happened for you where you went, you know what i’m going on my own I’m going to be a consultant, but i’m you know, i’m gonna own my own company I’m gonna build up my staff, but i’m gonna leverage my knowledge my expertise And my drive and my desire to get this business launch.

[00:05:24] When did that kick? The kick started in, I want to say 2014, but I didn’t know what to do with it. So this was like early on in podcasts. I remember I was listening to, smart, passive income podcasts with Pat Flynn. No, I don’t. it’s a great podcast. Okay. Talks about how to build passive income streams online.

[00:05:41] There you go. After you’re done listening to this on a regular basis, go to that one. That one’s an old podcast. Yeah, this is the hot podcast now. All the cool kids are doing it. Yes, exactly. But working in the construction business at the time. I was a project manager, half in the field, half in the office.

[00:05:57] And we’d build high rises, huge mega buildings. So my company built tower one of the world trade center, tower for the world trade center, rebuilt the UN huge 50, 60 story, five year projects. And I was on these projects from when they’re a hole in the ground and doing drawings all the way up to their complete negotiating with.

[00:06:16] Big time. No, not you. Okay. What were you doing there? I was in the field. So like we would create the plans and we’d work with unions. Okay. So I would be in the field working with the unions, not doing the work, but like tracking reporting and checking for when things were broken and. Putting in reports so we could get paid if somebody broke something, basically.

[00:06:35] so I was listening to these podcasts at the time and I was at the Baccarat Hotel, which is on 53rd Street and 6th Avenue. The building’s done, basically. So show up in jeans and t shirt and just, walk in the whole building from the roof and the 75 million apartment. That is a 75 million apartment.

[00:06:53] Who in the world? So check this out. This is how depressed I got working in business. If I laid down, And stretched my arms out. The amount of space I took up in square footage was more than I made in a year back in the time. Good Lord. The fact that that tells me that this is a real, we did measure his wingspan.

[00:07:16] He does have a 37 foot wingspan, but still. But so I’m in there and then we’re, I’m with my foreman and we’re walking the entire building, every apartment we could get into just to make sure we’re signed off. Cause right. We want to get paid and close it down. And we get down to the construction entrance, which is like a triple height floor.

[00:07:34] Cause they don’t want us going through the, Baccarat lobby with the Baccarat crystals and the chandelier. That’s 300 grand. So we get to our entrance and I’m talking with the foreman and he’s showing me pictures on his phone. We’re like going on our way to lunch. And then he taps me on the shoulder.

[00:07:50] I take one step forward and a cement block falls right where I was standing like missed it. Just like that. What? Whoa. And so I’m freaking out. I’m shaking. And Kenny’s the guy’s name. And he’s he’s a Panamanian. He’s Papa, not everybody gets a chance like that. You’re here for something. Wow. Oh, my Lord.

[00:08:08] And I was like, maybe. Maybe and then I was like, I’m not hungry. And I just walked. I’d left on a long walk. You weren’t hungry after that. Interesting later. Wow. Yeah. Shocking. Later. I was kimchi for some stream. Yeah. Okay. All right. For afterwards, but went on a long walk and it came to the conclusion that I’m going to die one day, but if I’m going to, I should be doing something I really am excited about.

[00:08:31] And so that’s where I was like, yeah. I want to be an entrepreneur. That was a real yeah, kick. That was a universal kick. Yeah. No, you don’t get a lot of some sort of energy, higher power, something, right? And so you heard it loud and clear when got some kimchi. Yep. Okay. So what? When, which by the way, studies have shown that after a near death experience, the number three food choice is, no, I’m just kidding.

[00:08:57] Lowers all the cortisol. Yeah, is that, yeah. Pungent smell, just, it’s like smelling salts of food. It’s a little, small, very small known fact that isn’t known. so when did the pen hit the paper and you start mapping this thing out? Like, how do you go from that to sales expert? Okay. So let’s tell you, a lot of errors.

[00:09:17] I think I’ve made enough mistakes to ask questions and seek counsel, right? Best way to learn. But after that, I was like, I want to own my own company. What skills do I have that I can deploy now to get out of this dangerous business? Yeah, and I was like, I’m pretty good with people. Maybe sales is the thing.

[00:09:34] And then I thought about, I was like, if you can sell, you’ll always have a business no matter what. No matter what. So I was like, all right, sales. So I started pounding the pavement, going to events all over New York City, asking for advice, making people know that I was looking for something.

[00:09:46] And within three months. I landed a job as an SDR bottom of the barrel. I was like, I want that. Cause I want to know what, does cold calling feel like? What is sending all the emails? What does all the rejection feel like? And you stack up all those L’s and eventually you can reach the W that you need, but you need to know that implicitly.

[00:10:02] So I got into that and I did that for a couple of years. the company wasn’t doing as well. They let go of most of the team. Then I got another gig. Working very well there, and then they built their platform on Facebook, and then Facebook changed the algorithm, so they cut a bunch of people, of course, but luckily they’d hired a consultant to work with me as I built out sales, and this guy was awesome, still, my good friend, Scott Sambucci, shout out to Scott, what up, Scott, and.

[00:10:31] Scott and I had a quick conversation because I sent him a note and thanked him for all his help. And I was like, Hey, looking forward to work with you again in the future. And he’s Hey, I’m sorry to hear you out, let go. But how about we hop on a call? Maybe I can help you figure out what’s next for you.

[00:10:44] Which is awesome. Okay. That’s a human with purpose, right? Scott is one of my favorite people of all time. Scott got the give. He’s the first person I think in the acknowledgements in the book. Okay. Like he’s that important. We talk all the time. It’s cool. But we get on for a half an hour. It turns into a three hour call.

[00:11:00] And at the end of it, he’s Hey, I got a job for someone like you, if you want it. And that’s how I got into consulting. Okay. And so I was hungry. I’m still hungry, but like very hungry to learn the right way to do things. And Scott saw that and he, put the tutelage in and we worked a lot. We worked very closely together for a number of years.

[00:11:16] And from there, it was quite surprising how much I didn’t know. I knew cause I could apply it in the right place. Yeah. So I’d say for anybody listening on anything like you, I don’t love the term expert because I would never call myself that I’m a student and I’ve studied a little more than some other people, which gives me the license to make some recommendations.

[00:11:33] But I’m still learning all day. I’m going to call you an expert, whether you like it or not. That’s not there. You’re welcome. Also, there also water to that. I’m going to insult you with complimenting you by being an expert. Let’s talk SDR here for a second. Sure, because boy, I love that grind.

[00:11:49] Rejection is an interesting thing. Thank you. It either destroys you or fuels you. Yes. And there’s, that mindset thing. Like I liked the rejection. It’s, almost like the person you never want to fight is the person who, when you punch, they take it. Yes. That’s the person you’re like, Oh no, because now they get the punch back.

[00:12:09] Thanks. Thanks for that punch. They’re like, woo. so it’s, I look at that with sales, but I want to dig into. From your perspective and your learnings, you’re a learned doctor as A learned, working on learn everything. Yeah. So in your learnings as an SDR, what are like the main ingredients that make an ultra successful SDR, and then Lauren, I wanna get your perspective on that as well.

[00:12:32] Absolutely. We talked a little bit about this during our interview. I think it’s the things you can’t teach. So intangibles, I think sales is more of a mindset than a skill set. You can teach a skill set, but you can’t teach someone to be hungry. You can’t teach someone to want it. You can’t teach someone to, ask questions and go for help.

[00:12:51] that’s not stuff. I got goosebumps because it’s dude, this guy is were you in my brain right now? What’s going on right there? I’m on the side of the headphone. it’s It is so true. You give me a team of fighters over a team of intellectuals. Yes, going to reason themselves out of the home.

[00:13:12] Yeah, win all day. Yes. There’s too much thinking we need more for that reason. I also think an athlete makes a great potential. SDR or salesperson in general, they understand goals. They understand like it’s going to take some time to ramp up. They’re going to rest and reassess and look at what they did.

[00:13:29] And they’re going to be coachable, which I think is a massively important thing in sales. Like where I say, I’m a learner. I’ve done some cool things in my career, but I know when I get around people who are way ahead of me, it’s shut up, listen, ask questions and soak up the game. Yeah, that curiosity, if it’s innate, it’s, even better.

[00:13:48] But I think you can learn some curiosity through the science of selling through script, scripting out some of the questions until you do it repetitively enough that it starts to become a version of innate. Yes. But it takes, you have to do it repetitively enough. The hard part is, Loving the boredom of that repetition, right?

[00:14:10] Yes, that’s the hard part. Like falling in love with it. And if you can, figure out that, if it’s not a natural attribute, then you got something. What say you learn? What do you, think are the keys to being an SDR? Yeah, we definitely got into this during our initial conversation, but that hunger that’s something that internal motivation, if you’re the type of person where you need a carrot on a stick to motivate you every day, sales is going to be difficult.

[00:14:38] It’s going to be hard because like you said, that monotony of getting hung up on and getting told I have no interest, it is not going anywhere. So in order to rise above that and keep that hunger and not be worn down by it, because some salespeople, they do, they get worn down and they can’t come back from that, you need to find something that amuses you.

[00:14:59] You need to find something that drives you that, itches that scratch. For me, personally, I made it a game. It was a puzzle for me. I was like, I need to get to the decision maker. I need to convince them. That they need to meet with me and then I need to somehow drive that sales process to the end and win that deal over all the other, vendors that are in the mix.

[00:15:24] That’s a lot of moving parts. There’s a lot of things that can go wrong. There’s a lot of things that, you will learn lessons on, right? And, for me, it was, Like setting those small little goals of okay, I’m going to make this phone call. I’m going to find out who the person is. Okay, did that. Now I have to find out how to get a hold of them.

[00:15:42] How do they prefer to communicate? Okay, did that. Now I got to get that. it was like these little things that fed my hunger. Managed the activity, right? Yeah, so it wasn’t like, oh, I didn’t, I didn’t get this end goal for the whole day. It was these little things, these little wins that sustained me.

[00:16:00] and then it also, I think sales is addicting. Has it like, yeah, if you start to get results, you have so much negativity, but then you get this little glisten droplet of, and It’s ultra dopamine. it’s like the, it’s the ultimate validation. A hundred percent.

[00:16:19] And then you need more. You need more immediately. Yeah. it’s totally that. And I’m sure every company will accept you getting more immediately. Yeah. They would love that. They’re like, how do we help you do that? Let’s do that more. That would be fantastic. But, those, personalities, those personally personality traits we talk about that align with that, they don’t fall from trees.

[00:16:40] No, they don’t. That’s an interesting term these days. Can you motivate people? Can you motivate a salesperson? No, thank you. I because I firmly believe motivation is a fleeting thing. Yes, because I can get super hyped up like after this podcast or during this podcast. I’m super hyped and I’ll take that energy into something else, but that’s not going to be here.

[00:17:00] Maybe tomorrow. Yeah, So we discipline it’s discipline. It’s consistency. I show up every day. I do the things. As the highest quality I can and over time, it will work 100%. Like I’ll give you a quick anecdote here. I wrote a book, right? Everybody’s oh man, I could never write a book. It takes all this time.

[00:17:16] It’s a crazy amount of energy. Super power storytelling. right there, that’s a, hook and a title. It’s beautiful. That’s what I went for. Yeah, it’s very, hookish. That’s not very hookish. That’s a left hook to jab, right hook took. Oh, we either want, we’re changing it up because everyone’s going for the right.

[00:17:34] It hurts so good is what we’re saying, but I wrote the entire book in 18 months doing one Pomodoro 25 minutes every day. Okay. That’s it. So yeah, I saw your post on LinkedIn. Explain Pomodoro for us, six year old, educated humans like me. Notice by the sentence I just put together, that’s the intellect that I have.

[00:17:58] Okay, let’s start over. Go ahead. Don’t cut that. Pomodoro means tomato in Italian, and I believe the guy who invented the Pomodoro timing technique had a timer in his kitchen that was in the shape of a tomato. Got it. And he was testing how much time could he just focus on one thing to where it was accomplished.

[00:18:15] He didn’t get bored and feel distracted. And he found that 25 minutes was the optimal amount of time where he could do it. So this becomes a time management productivity hack where you set a timer for 25 minutes and you monotask. And you just do your best with that thing as much as you can, as best as you can for that time block.

[00:18:32] So it’s multitasking bullshit? Yes. I would agree. And so the other thing You become average at everything. You can be average or below average at everything all at the same time. Or below. Yeah, absolutely. you just dilute the hell out of everything you’re doing. Yeah, I completely agree with you there.

[00:18:48] And I’ve adopted. So like I have a ridiculous morning routine. People always give me crap for it, but like it’s two hours. Let’s go. Let’s hear it. So I meditated. Can you say it in less than two hours? I don’t know if our listeners will hang. Super fast. Okay, cool.

[00:19:03] And where’s that tomato timer? And then I breathe again. Yes. And then, I breathe one more time while I’m thinking and I talk to my crystals and they respond to me. They bring me meetings. Yeah, I wish. Yeah. We got to find those crystals meetings. No, but I meditate for 25 minutes. First thing in the morning.

[00:19:21] Boom. Then I’ll write in my journal morning pages. Just clear out the brain. What am I thinking about? What am I focused on? Intentions. Yeah, ish, nothing gratitude, something in there, but just what am I thinking about? First thing in the morning, clear it up, just get it out, So I don’t have that distraction.

[00:19:36] Okay. And I’m up at 5 in the morning. So there’s nobody to bother me. So it’s just real focus. I do stand up comedy. So I write stand up and jokes and stuff for 25 minutes. And then I will read or study something sales related for another 25 minutes to set myself up for the day. And then I’m into the day.

[00:19:52] Okay. And then I’m ready for my clients because I’ve done the things that I find interesting and I prepared my mind to add value, but I say that all to say, I just show up and do them. I don’t like I might have an activity number. I want to hit for certain things, but it’s Nope, I’m going to be here.

[00:20:07] I’m going to do this when I do it again tomorrow and I’m gonna do it again tomorrow. And like that whole track record of doing it adds up in this case at least to a book. I just did it every day. Yeah. It just takes a long time. It’s not hard to do. Like we talked a little bit about like the, weeks go by so fast, but the days are really long.

[00:20:25] It’s not if you chip at them, but just chip. It’s going to stack up, right? Same thing. You getting rejected, You stack up enough L’s you can reach the W. And the more you do it is the faster you can stack up those L’s and have less of them and reach more W’s, but it’s a process. You can’t beat the process.

[00:20:42] And so where we go back to the initial question is, can you teach motivation? Can you teach, those intangible skills? You can’t, you have to be a person that understands most of the things you do are not going to result in the big overarching goal, but over enough time. The outsized gains that you get from the consistency, not only in your business, but the person you become, I think are the parts that a lot of people forget about.

[00:21:05] You can inspire. You can inspire by having the discipline. Yes. To lead from the front so that other people see the success. And I would correlate that back to what you’re doing here with the book and what you’re teaching organizations. Essentially, what you’re saying is I’m the proof of concept. Yes, always.

[00:21:26] I’ll test it first. Like I already did it, right? I already took all the bullets, been there, done that, made all the mistakes, screwed up, fixed it, screwed up again and fixed it better so that you don’t have to. Exactly. I’d be the help I didn’t have, right? That’s how we come back to it. But it’s consistency, man.

[00:21:44] It’s not pretty. It’s not sexy. It’s really annoying. It’s demoralizing some days, but over the right amount of time, You’re one of the best in anything you do, because you didn’t quit. Okay, so best, best advice that you’ve been given by, let’s give a shout out. By the way, let me, I have to go back to this real quick, because it just, it hit me while you were talking.

[00:22:07] Then I went a different direction, but I can’t miss on this. If you’re keeping score at home, Which that’d be really cool. If you did send us your spreadsheet. If you are, this is now going to be, I think this will be episode six. Okay. Episode five drives soon. Right before six. Interestingly enough. it’s consistent.

[00:22:27] Yes. Strong accounting. So this is now. just 6 episodes talking with a Stanley Cup champion, CEO, a director of sales for multiple different companies and a serial CEO entrepreneur and. All of them talk about getting up at 4. 30, 5 o’clock in the morning, all of them talk about a workout, a meditation, a cold shower, or like the cold immersion, cold plunge, right?

[00:23:07] Have you done it? No, because I’m still battling to get to that level of success, , and if I’m being honest, I don’t know how I’m here right now. I don’t know how I’ve gotten to a level of success because I have been so undisciplined in my life. I don’t agree with that at all. I, will tell you, I, I am a heart hustle, muscle grunt.

[00:23:28] I will just keep, that’s your discipline. Keep going. That’s, but I think it’s stubbornness, more than’s discipline. That’s fine, but that’s still discipline. I have figured out now a plan where I do get up, I do journal. I’m doing all those things and life has completely changed. I’m peaceful. I have harmony.

[00:23:44] I feel abundant. I feel joyful. I keep hearing this, by the way, if you’re keeping score, check this off because it’s not just me saying it. I’m not the guy to listen to. It’s the guest. And this is another guest saying the same thing. You want to get shit done. It starts by getting up early, clearing all of the shit that you don’t.

[00:24:06] Need off like completely resetting yourself and then attack mode kicks in. I would say being intentional. Yes. Yes. Being intentional. And, that goes back into when we were talking initially, with salespeople, their success. And I talked about, self awareness and being able to. Tell you don’t lie to yourself.

[00:24:30] it’s so easy. I feel like it’s so easy to tell yourself that you’re doing everything you can. You’re trying so hard, but in the back of your head, there’s something that’s telling you’re a liar. Yes. No, you’re not. That’s called that imposter syndrome, man. That thing creeps in. That’ll keep you from doing anything.

[00:24:44] Great fear. Fear always happens right before greatness, right? But once people acknowledge that, that’s when you can change. That’s when you can be intentional. That’s when you can do these things. Yes. so let’s go back to the question that I was going to ask before the person in my head, whoever that guy is.

[00:25:00] It was me actually. Was it you? He was passing that aura over to you. So I want to, know, everyone that I’ve, interacted with that I find compelling has somebody that compelled them, right? So who’s, that in your life? You talked about Scott already, but let’s get into the family a little bit and within your family unit, mom, dad, uncles, brothers, sisters, cats, dogs, all my, who’s, yeah, me too.

[00:25:28] Like not even sniffles, just. The thought of a cat. Same. Yeah, they’re strange to me. Like, how do you not want to hang out with me? I’m super cool. I’ll rub your belly. I’m buying you food. Yeah, what the hell? Why are you hiding? Get out of the neighbor’s garbage can. Come hang with me. We got golden retriever energy in the podcast.

[00:25:44] If I could get a cat, if I could get a cat that like was a dog. I saw one on Instagram the other day. That’d be cool. It was raised by pit bulls. Oh, that would be super whole stance, and it barks. Oh, that’s hilarious. That’s awesome. Yeah, I’ll send it to you afterwards. Yes, please do. Okay, so now we’re getting into the Sigmund Freud’s theory, nature nurture.

[00:26:04] Okie dokie. All right, so let’s try and stay on topic here for a second. sure, no problem. who’s, inspiring you is I just got to pick one person. No, you’ve, you get to ramp babies. Your show. so many people, man. so shout out to my parents. I’m going to see my parents tonight.

[00:26:22] Delightful mom’s birthday, and dad’s there a week apart. Oh, that’s cool. So it’s going to be really cool. My dad would probably be a huge person who’s inspiring to me. he just went to work. Didn’t complain. he raised three boys in New York city in the nineties. Oof. Like doing his thing, no arguments, just went to work, and never asked for any credit.

[00:26:42] And so like that alone, and he was in sales in his own marketing company, and then he sold cars and he sold audio equipment. So like he understands the grind. So there you go. the idea of knowing how to sell just gives you, it gives you a power, gives you a power. And I think he came down to visit me and my, I live in Mexico with my brother.

[00:26:59] And so my dad came down, that’s cool. It’s super cool. So lucky for it. My dad gifted me all of his old sales training books. Oh cool. Get out. Which is so cool. You got like the three ring binders. Oh my goodness. I got all of them. and going slightly tangent here, I’ve been really digging going into like old school sales trainers.

[00:27:17] Like before it was a guru business. Like Jim Rome, and Dick Gardner. Dick Gardner. Okay. That’s one I haven’t dug into yet. I’ve been like a Zig Ziglar. Zig Ziglar. He’s in the Zig Ziglar era. Okay. Unfortunately he died at the age of 40 in a car accident. Oh Lord. You can get two or three of his videos on YouTube.

[00:27:36] Brilliant. Just super short, really pithy. Like his name again, Dick Gardner, Got it. I’ll send it to you afterwards. He’s really good. Tom, Hopkins. I love. Okay. but just diving into like more source material. Like when it’s guys who were just doing it for the people who were doing it, that’s it.

[00:27:51] Not the bloviating Instagram stuff. So reading those old books, it’s here’s the fundamentals. Cause funnily enough, the fundamentals always work. Oh my gosh. And they have existed. they just vary from personality to personality. But if you just strip it down and get rid of the personality, this infrastructure is there and it has worked for years.

[00:28:13] It just gets glossed over by the, like you said, the Instagram, like what I told the guy was that like, yeah, here’s how I overcome the objection. And then I do curls like that. No, it takes pre workout before he does. The art of sales is to not get an objection, like to overcome them before they come up and then to understand somebody’s problems.

[00:28:37] Yes. Yes, which is a lost art, which is super strange. I don’t understand. but anyway, so getting those gifts from my dad is gorgeous. Cool. So shout out to dad for that. Another person is my uncle Willie. And, when my parents were at work and I was the last boy at home. They would send me over to my aunt and uncle to like, hang out while they’re at work on a Saturday.

[00:28:56] No, so my uncle put me to work and he’s I’m cutting the grass. I’m cleaning the garage. Everybody’s got to have an uncle Willie. And then he’s, he gives me like 20 bucks and he takes me to pizza and candy, of course, cause I love candy. But one thing he said to me that has always stuck with me when he would pay me, he’s Hey, remember you have, two hands.

[00:29:16] And if you put your hands to work, You can always get what you want. And it’s, I’ve never lost that. So sales or anything else in life, it’s put the work in, show up, use, use your skills, use your energy, and that’s gonna get you to the places you wanna go. And I think that’s also fantastic.

[00:29:32] Fantastic advice. Fantastic advice. Anyone else you want to, add? Shout out to my brother, Mark’s awesome. Keeps you motivated. my consigliere in . Yeah. Yeah. people think we’re twins, which is also fun, but we’re not. Okay. Shout out to Mark. Oscar Cantu. He’s a wealth manager at Morgan Stanley.

[00:29:50] He’s a hustler. He’s a grinder. always motivating, always checking on me. A Levi. Like I just do, I could do a whole mass amount of shots. A lot of people. show me your network. I’ll show you your net worth. Agree? Yes. Okay. Absolutely. How is that? How does that apply to you? I think it’s, I’d say more than anything else.

[00:30:11] Your network is a, is proof that you are consistent. So like the reason people want to hang out with you again as friends is because there’s a reasonable expectation that you are a certain way that we’re going to have a certain type of time and we have certain things we can build off of. So I think within any network, you showing up as the person that they can relate to and be a, whether refuge advice or otherwise.

[00:30:35] Is the key and from there, they’re willing to introduce you to other people because it’s like, Hey, this guy’s can take invalidate you, right? So even kind of part of our earlier conversation and I read about this a little bit in the book. A brand is a promise Yeah, it’s not a logo and the more consistently you show up on that promise.

[00:30:52] is the more trust I have for you and your brand Period we talked about creating a feeling right? That’s it Brand is so the way I describe the difference I’ve been asked the difference between marketing and branding, right? So marketing is the beautiful invitation, right? It’s, it’s got the awesome font and it’s just it’s yeah, it’s it’s on great card stock, right?

[00:31:15] And you’re like, damn, this envelope has got to be 50 cents on its own. This is a real deal, man. two whole, okay. Holy cow. I don’t think they’re going to have dry chicken at this wedding. Like the invitation, like you go, okay, let me dig deeper. The That’s marketing. Branding is the feeling that you have when you’re sitting in the church pew, when you see all of the colors, when you see the smiling faces, when you feel the energy of everyone sitting there in the wedding, when your tear comes down your cheek and you look around, mom and dad are completely all inspired and touched.

[00:31:52] And then you go to the party, the after party, right? And it’s just Everyone is so spirited that connects the marketing and the branding. So if you think about that in terms of an organization, the invitation is like your logo does matter. The way that you write copy, the amount of content, the style of that content, the brand is the consistency of what you deliver.

[00:32:20] in your products and services and the feeling that somebody has when they interact with anyone at your organization and what other people say about you and whether or not somebody wants to stay with you. Marketing gets them in the door. Branding keeps them with you, right? And I always think that it’s so important for sales, correct me if I’m wrong, or if you believe this to be true as well for salespeople to become brand champions, because if they’re not, they’re just selling the product or service.

[00:32:49] They need to sell the complete experience. That’s the key. That’s how you keep a customer for an extended period of time, which allows you to become an asset and not a transaction. Correct. A trusted advisor. There you go. Yeah. so many people, and I, again, I was guilty of this too, before I got training, right?

[00:33:03] Oh yeah. Where you sell the product. Like I, one of the things I do for people is I review phone calls. So I think that’s a clear marker of the health of your, business, how you sound on the phone and what you say. But it’s like, They do a quick introduction, and then they talk about what packages they have to offer.

[00:33:19] It’s like, where’s the pain? You want this one? Do you want this one? Do you want this one? And they wonder why the person doesn’t want to stay in the call. And they’re like, oh yeah, just send me this stuff and I’ll book later. And sure enough. I was guilty of that early in my career. I was the price dropper.

[00:33:31] Same. Oh, you don’t want it at this? How about at this? And it was like, I needed to get like in a chokehold at 26. Somebody was like, what do you, some, a Navy SEAL put me literally in a chokehold and just what do you want to be? I’m like, I want to be like you. He was a sales executive. I’m like, I want to be like you.

[00:33:48] He’s quit being so damn nice. But the way that you need to be nice is by being their advisor. And the way that you advise has been figuring out their pain. And then that’s how you actually are nice because you’re solving their problem. And when a sales. Person first starts. It’s very much that what we’re talking about, and it doesn’t change until they get mad.

[00:34:09] There’s, I can tell you with every salesman I’ve seen, there is a moment where they have enough Yeah, that one call. It is good. Push on. I can’t take it anymore. The next call up for myself. The next call, all of a sudden they’re a human being and they’re like, look, this is what you’re telling me about your business.

[00:34:26] This isn’t okay. Why are you putting up with there? They become a consultant and it’s out of just it. Pure anger. They’re over it. Yeah, and then they move forward in their sales. So what you just brought there was like tonality shifts, and it’s almost a way of advocating for yourself. But there’s a balance there between being aggressive and being assertive, right?

[00:34:46] And there is a subtlety, right? So talk about tonality. How important is that? I think it’s massively important. Big picture here. Remember, we’re human solving human problems in a business context. If we are not being human first, there’s no way I’m going to trust you. And so going back to even brand, I’m familiar with your brand.

[00:35:04] That made me want to talk to you. I think I heard a stat on one of the other podcasts you guys did. 85 percent of the buyer’s journey is done outside of humans. Yep. Yeah, I don’t want to talk to anybody until I want to talk to anybody. So you have to do that work beforehand. And then when they meet you, finally, that experience has to be commensurate with the brand that has to be consistent.

[00:35:23] It has to even feel a little bit better. Like they have to have kind of that all whoa, in person, you really jump I. T. decision makers. This might sting frustrated with I. T. issues, security threats and the stress of your technology infrastructure. Your technology should blend. Seamlessly with your business objectives, technology, infrastructure, management with limited resources can be exhausting and counterproductive.

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[00:36:12] Get back your time and your money with GSD. Drive business forward. Lead the technology to GSD. GSD now dot com. Yes, that’s the key, right? So I just put it in the perspective of. It’s essential to be patient on a call, and then you have to have a well structured call. Like I’m huge on the discipline, right?

[00:36:35] That’s the discipline. Okay. We follow this process and situation, right? Like my big thing, number one, is do some research on your, prospect. If you don’t do some research, you’re a loser. You’ve already lost the deal in my opinion. Yeah. Say that again. If you don’t do some research, you are a loser.

[00:36:49] There you go. And when he says that, he doesn’t mean like you as a human, you’re a loser. He means you’re going to lose in sales. You’re going to lose in sales. Literally. Yeah. You will lose. You will. And that will be a big, lesson for you. Often. Hopefully you learn. the Packers are going to lose that much this year.

[00:37:03] Not the Bears, though. I just got to make sure he’s speaking to the camera. Hey, Caleb. Hey, Caleb. Shout out to the bears. I got you, baby. All right. Bull champs. 20, 30, 30, 50, 70. it’ll be actual bears. Oh God, please. All right. So yeah, the discipline is absolutely critical. It’s so important. And, where did you start to find that?

[00:37:34] did you find that, in. In your SDR role, did you, had you advanced? When did that part click where you were like, okay, I can’t just wing this. I can’t just go off of my purse. ’cause you’re, a sharp dude. thank you. And likewise. and like you’re like you are an opposing figure.

[00:37:53] When you walked in I was like, okay, this, it’s the hair dude owns a room, right? It’s the hair . No, but you’re handsome. You’re a tall guy. Like you’re, It’s all my parents’ fault. All of it. Yeah. You know what? Bad you got some DNA man. I got messed up. Mom and dad. God help you, but taller, DNA . anyways, but, you probably were able to get by as an SDR early on because you have a great personality, right?

[00:38:20] So much you have the ability, it, so ability to communicate and it gets you to a certain point. So when did the discipline part click where you’re like, dude, I gotta map this out. Yeah. I think so. I worked in startups, right? And startups are notorious for not having any system or any process. You gotta do it. Yeah. Yeah. You just gotta figure it out. Like my first day in sales. Like proper sales. I just got a list of companies that are like, get a meeting. So I was like, figure it out, which is a terrible way to raise a salesperson. but I threw errors, trying different things out.

[00:38:49] Eventually, I hit my numbers and whatever else and got promoted up. But I think the, thing dialed in when I was like, no, there has to be a better way to do this. Yeah. Like these people who are making obscene amounts of money don’t do it this way. There’s no way they do. And then I think, so going back to the traits you can’t teach.

[00:39:06] I think I’m blessed with curiosity and I ask a lot of questions. Yeah, some people don’t like that. Ask a lot of questions and that can cause its own issues inside of a company sometimes. But I was like asking the best guy. Where do you study? What books do I need to read? Where should I go to learn about this?

[00:39:22] And my you’re deifying them. In a way, but it’s Hey, read the challenger sale, read spin selling. That’s where spin selling is the one read, read the art of the sale. understand what this actually is and is not. And what type of person does this well. Yeah. And what are the personality traits and understand if it’s the thing for you.

[00:39:43] And once you have that kind of background, you read these books, it’s Oh, that’s how I should challenge this question. Yes. That’s how I should paint this picture. This is how I should structure something so that Having a conversation that unlocks pain and creates space for me to make an offer that helps with their pain.

[00:39:59] What a concept. What a concept. Spin was the, what was that for me? Situation, problem, impact, need, payoff. Yes. That literally, I jumped 50 percent in that. Ability. And then when I knew it so well that I could teach it to my salespeople, they were like, Whoa, this is a difference maker because you’re no longer a professional presenter.

[00:40:20] Now you’re a professional problem seeker. and then when you can qualify it, quantify it, and then present it back in their terms and say, so what do you want to do about it? Oh my gosh, they ask you for the order. That’s it. That’s the key. That’s how good stories about how you helped other people get there with the similar situations.

[00:40:40] Yeah. You’re on your way. Again, there’s a lot more to it than that for anybody listening. But those are the bones and consistency on that. You’re off to the races. So thousands of companies have hired you in some capacity, whether it was to speak to their team, whether it was to map out their, their, strategy.

[00:41:01] whether it was to have ongoing training, that repetition of training, that, MRR is always good. Those are nice. All right. So why should somebody hire you? I think they should hire me because we’ve uncovered a problem together that you want to solve that I can help with. And that’s going to help you get to the place you want to be in the next two, three, four, five years.

[00:41:24] And, I have great hair too. That’s not a bad thing. then me too. it’s so weird that you and I are in the same room with great hair. I’m, balancing us out. Yeah. you and me to combined you and I combined have amazing hair. That’s a fact. Yes, that’s a fact. But I think also on that too, why should somebody hire me?

[00:41:42] I’m never the guy who’s you need to hire me for this. that’s not my style. I want to, I don’t want to work with anybody. I can’t help. So I don’t know if I want to work with you yet. I want to see what you have. I want to understand where you are and if there is a fit for us, we’ll outline that together, we’ll come up with a plan and then we’ll move forward.

[00:41:59] So one of the things that I’ve really started to take to heart recently is I do an audit of any sales organization before I get into a full commitment. Okay. So we’ll see what the gaps are. If there are gaps, we’ll see what the things are. And then Hey, these are the big things you need to work on.

[00:42:15] If you want to hit these big goals we’ve talked about, here’s what’s at stake. If you don’t do those, what are you thinking about? So you’re, definitely analyzing how important is bedside manner and sales

[00:42:30] going to give you a consulting answer? Okay. It depends. Yeah. So if you’re selling into MSPs as an example, it’s going to be one way. If you’re selling into e commerce companies, it’s going to be another way. I think you got to read the room more than anything else. The personality you’re selling to. You really got to know it.

[00:42:47] There’s a, tool I learned about. Okay. Called crystal nose. Have you guys heard of this? No, actually we need to read more. Lauren. Apparently I’m here. You don’t have to read it. I’m just going to pass it to you directly, but this, is tool. You can get like a free trial on it. I’m not endorsed by the product, by the way, but it attaches to a LinkedIn profile and it gives you their personality type and ways to engage with the person specifically.

[00:43:09] I’m so obsessed with things like this. I talk about how in hiring and sales that we. Everyone really should include some sort of personality test because we need to a highlight and figure out on paper who that target personality is and who is, who’d be the best for our organization and then replicate that because when we talk about those, personality traits that you can’t teach, that’s all tied.

[00:43:37] So it’s all tied together. and then the fact that they’ve automated it for LinkedIn. That’s pretty awesome. He’s still my beating heart. there is a wonderful lady by the name of Christina Brady, who with, a group of investors and experts and, technology gurus, they came up with a platform, a SAS platform called luster, and it’s essentially AI, trained like AI role playing where you can type in the title and the, I think you can drop in similar to that.

[00:44:14] I think you can drop in like all types of different data and the AI will essentially as close to possible become that ICP. Wow. And then you role play with that ICP before you go to the call or the presentation. Fascinating. So it’s a SaaS platform. A little shout out to Christina Brady. She’s amazing.

[00:44:35] She’s from Chicago. It’s called Lustre. So if you’re interested in looking into it, look into it. If you have a sales team you’re running, really Pretty cool. You bolt that on, with what Stephen’s talking about. You might have something pretty assertive that you can, get after it with. Those are, great tools.

[00:44:50] And again, I think it starts with the curiosity about how you can be better. So back to your point about like tone and everything else as a salesperson, a sales professional, a business owner, whatever. You have to consistently be reading the room because you are who your customer needs you to be to solve their problem.

[00:45:07] And I think that takes some getting used to and understanding and doing a lot of reading and figuring things out and working your process alongside the person your prospect needs you to be to solve their problem. By the way, as a human, you have every single type of emotion. So you can be authentic in a sales process where you strip yourself of that corporate feel and you get super, human.

[00:45:30] And emotional and you draw from all of these life experiences where maybe one time you actually had to talk to a friend in a really tough way and say, you’re going down a really bad path and you know that emotion, you have to not be afraid to have that emotion with a stranger in a sales setting. At the same time, there are times where somebody might have so much pain that you’re dealing with that they might feel like, what’s the point?

[00:45:59] If you get a client to a prospect of client to the point where they have so much pain that they’re like, what’s the point of even fixing it? I’m screwed. Then you’ve got an issue there. So you got to know how to. To inspire them that, Hey, look, there’s someone like that. Yeah. There’s another side, or you got to be able to say, Hey, I’m going to walk away from this one because too far gone.

[00:46:22] And you don’t even believe. So why should I, a hundred percent? Yeah. Oh, I’ll go one other thing on that, which is like why I wrote a book on storytelling of all things. Salespeople need to understand the stories that their company. Has helped people to achieve, right? So why stories story?

[00:46:39] The whole reason you tell a story is to help a prospect and audience person better tell their own. Yeah. So what I also say about that, you want to read the room. If you’ve done your research on a company, a company that you’ve worked with that’s similar to them. You’ve identified some potential needs they may already have because you’ve done research.

[00:46:55] And then I tell every entrepreneur, any salesperson, build a story bank, build a group of stories that you have from results we’ve gotten for people, your own life that you can put into different situations and know those cold because you can be yourself because you know the story. That’s amazing. It’s amazing too, because the big mistake I think a lot of people make is they want to tell a story in first person too early, i.

[00:47:18] e. this is how I can help you. We’re going to do this for you. We’re going to do this for you. We’re going to do this for you. Immediately resistance comes up, right? Whereas what you’re talking about, and I wholeheartedly have seen it in action effectively work is you tell a story of what your most successful clients have are doing.

[00:47:37] So it’s a So if somebody says, I don’t think I’d be interested, you can say, with all due respect, I’m not offering that to you. I’m simply telling you what our most successful clients have realized what you might realize might be completely different, right? So it allows you to not be offering and offering because once you offer, you can’t take away.

[00:47:57] Correct? You can only take. Yeah, you’re stuck. the book, let’s get into it. It’s up on the screen. Superpower storytelling. I’ll give the little line at the bottom, a tactical guide to telling the stories. You need to lead, sell and inspire. Love every bit of that. Thank you. Okay. So what’s in it? I’m going to read it.

[00:48:20] I’m going to read it. There’s pages for you guys. Awesome. And I’m going to expect us that sign and we’re going to take all kinds of pictures. let’s do it. But, yeah, what’s in the book, the first, what’s in the box in the ball, brother, the. The whole reason I wrote it more than anything else is because having trained as many people as I have, I see that lots of people just sell based on product and that’s not interesting.

[00:48:45] It’s not compelling. There’s nothing in it for me as the listener with them. And what I see as a better opportunity is to tell people what you’ve helped other people achieve. And so when I saw that as a gap, I was like, here’s yeah. Stories that you already have that you can leverage. So I talk about what stories you have.

[00:49:03] I talked about the four questions people should ask themselves before they tell any stories. So the stories land. And those are, the following questions are what’s at stake for the audience. What’s the big thing that they want to achieve. The next is what’s what do they actually want to learn or achieve about what’s at stake?

[00:49:18] Then, as you mentioned, emotions, what do you want the audience to feel? 95 percent of buying decisions take place in the subconscious, which means you are an emotional buyer no matter how much logic you have. And only 5 percent of that decision is made on logic. So you have to make somebody feel something you have to, otherwise you’re not going to break through.

[00:49:37] And then finally, what are you asking them to do next? You have to have all of that. Ironed out and clear before you get on the phone with somebody and you’re going to share a story with them. And I’ll say, tell a story, say, share a story because I’m inviting you into the conversation with a story. So once I saw that and it’s like, all right, where do we use them?

[00:49:53] So really quickly here, the way I structure a call is agenda. I asked the kryptonite question, as I call it, which is, Hey, what made you hop on the phone with us today? You usually get the entire answer for what they’re looking for, what the conversation is about. And that’s the first place you can drop a story.

[00:50:07] I’ve heard that before. That makes a lot of sense. We work with people who have similar needs to that. I remember one company we worked with just recently where we solved that. I’ll share a little bit more about that later, but that’s definitely something we’ve heard. Social proof. You’re in the right place.

[00:50:19] Be on text. We move through our questions. Where do you want to go? Where are you now? What’s in the way? Summarize. Summary is huge because a summary gives you the chance to make sure that they’re listening and they understand the fit. And then you get the opportunity to make your offer in response to the pain that they’ve already agreed that they have.

[00:50:37] And then you can tell another story and more of a case study. So it lands well, and it runs through the call in a very specific and tailored way that gives the person the context they need to move through a sale and feel confident that you’re the right choice. You can’t skip parts. You cannot skip. If you move from one part to the next, With because the prospect decided not to answer the question or decided not to participate in that question.

[00:51:03] You jump to the next. It’s it won’t work right off. Yes. So it’s baking. It’s not cooking. It’s very much baking. Yes. You all the ingredients have to go in order or that ain’t going to be a cake. I love that. I love that. So true. I’ve got to clip that one. That’s the winner. Creator spark. I feel the same way about proposals.

[00:51:25] Everything that you’re just talking about is how I feel when we’re teaching how to go through a proposal. It is something we are presenting, but it is a springboard. Every piece of that proposal is a part of this story. Yes. A hundred percent. Anything I’m offering you, here’s the value it adds to your business.

[00:51:40] Is that value you want? Does that make sense? so that, is that value? Does that make sense? That’s not just comments on a podcast. He’s literally asking, does that make sense? Is that fair? Does that make sense? Is that fair? Are you with me? Yeah. Here’s the psychology of it as well. You’re not only getting validation that you’re going in the right direction, but you’re also getting a head nod.

[00:52:04] So you’re getting a little small yes. Temperature check. Every time you get a little small yes, you get closer to the big one. Cause it’s never a big, yes. It’s like death by a thousand cuts or whatever they say. That’s how sales is. It’s like success by a thousand sugar cubes. You like candy. So it’s little pieces.

[00:52:26] It’s remember the little nerd candies? Oh yes. If you eat a whole thing of it, it’s one big candy, but it’s right. But if you eat them bit by bit, they’re little ones, right? So it’s that you’re getting all the little validation along the way. Why should somebody buy the book and then a moreover, why should somebody buy the book and then engage with you to come in and talk to their sales team and start the ball rolling?

[00:52:52] Where do they need to be? I think you should buy the book if you’re interested. It’s not seeing the conversions you want. If you’re not sure how to train your sales team on the right things that you know, implicitly as a founder or as a sales leader, and you’re looking for really quick frameworks that you can put in the business immediately.

[00:53:07] So the kind of the way I am in general, I want to give you something you can take right away and use. I’m not giving the secret sauce here. Take it. Cause I know you’re going to run into a bump of the road and I’m there for you. And if you want to talk to me about it, I’m happy to talk to you about it, but here’s value for you right now, like the book has a workbook in it.

[00:53:23] Like you can walk you through some stuff. Hopefully it’s as clear as possible asking for a friend. Yeah. Is there coloring in it? There’s no color, but the pages are like, I’ll still buy it. It’s ground ish color. You could color on the workbook if you want, but cool, It’s just, that’s the level I’m at, but it’s generally speaking, it’s frameworks you can take and use immediately.

[00:53:41] There’s a bunch of different stories in there from things I’ve experienced in my life or in my sales career that I think. Analyze and give you the lesson that we’re going for. And I think it’s a fun and easy read most importantly. So it’s something you can implement. You can read it quickly. I was very diligent about writing it for a, fifth through eighth grade reading level.

[00:54:02] So it’s fast, really pithy sentences. There’s not much, there’s no fluff on it. And I think if you want to engage on it, This is where you want somebody to teach this and make sure you have these pieces so that you can train your team. So one of my taglines, I have two taglines. The first is I help founders fire themselves from sales because a lot of people work in sales and they don’t want to do it, but they hire somebody and they don’t train that person on the right way to do it.

[00:54:26] So you want to catalog that out. I can help you catalog that out. We can add the right stories to it. And the second one I think is really important and really made me excited to speak with you and be on this podcast was stories close the sale, never the conversation. We need to be able to continue the conversation and the stories we tell, the stories we share, the stories we invite people to are why people will come to us and tell other people about community.

[00:54:47] You got to build fans, have to build fans, man. And that’s what I see is missing. And I really love to, when I was listening to, it’s like every company should be a media company now. You have to put your perspective out there. You have to make yourself approachable because you don’t know what people are going to watch, listen to, or otherwise.

[00:55:02] By the way, like we talked about, like they don’t want to talk to salespeople. So when you’re a salesperson, you have a much shorter time frame to be unbelievably impactful because by the time they actually do talk to you, they’re actually in a likely they’ve, if they’ve accepted the call. Yes. And it wasn’t an accident because they thought Carol from another company was calling to buy something from them.

[00:55:22] Yes. and they confuse the caller ID numbers, right? But they, if they actually are talking to you, it’s likely they’re in a buying position, they’re shopping, they’re looking at something. You better be amazing. You better be transformational. you got to get emotional. You got to transfer conviction and energy.

[00:55:40] You got to be on point. You got to have that discipline leading up to that. Your brand has got to be doing all those things so that when people are researching. they find that or when they’re just looking to be entertained on social media, they come across and go, these guys are nuts.

[00:55:56] They sell MSPs. They sell copiers and printers. They’re pretty funny. Yeah. that’s the thing. Okay. So here we go. We talked about you’re breaking into the MSPs, right? You want to get into. Definitely. Dealing with manage, sir, manage service providers. Good Lord. But like I’m in the industry, I can’t even say it.

[00:56:15] My gosh, MSP. So you want to get into that? Why there? What, why do you see an opening there? I think I know, but why? A couple of things here. I think first and foremost, the space is growing like crazy. So wherever there’s growth, there are growing pains. And from my understanding, even from earlier conversations with us today, and.

[00:56:35] Having done some research and spoke to people who are in the space, they’re like, yeah, they’re, not good at selling. They really need some help on that. And when I’ve explained what I do, they’re like, they need that. So it’s a thesis. I’m checking it out. So those are some pieces. And then quite frankly, I think sales should be something people are better at.

[00:56:57] I don’t like what I see most of the time. So I do my best to be a person that does it in a good way. And I think If I can help a space that is growing, adopt at least a portion of that, I think the space will grow better. The business will be healthier and we’ll have a lot of fun and make a lot of money along the way.

[00:57:12] Amen. There’s so much potential in this industry. And I will tell you that, Here’s it just in my brief time, I’m going to go, I’m going to go objectively because I’ve come from consulting. I’ve come from investment banking and I ended up in promotional products and branding and marketing. And then now all of a sudden I’m in it and distribution and service of kiosk era and, a boutique marketing and all these things that I’m having just a phenomenal time.

[00:57:36] But what I’m recognizing is first off, the buyers of this service are very difficult, people. In that they are experts. Okay. So I’m not saying they’re difficult people, like they’re bad human. Don’t get me wrong. What I’m saying is they are experts. So this is a hard sale because you’re calling an expert and saying, I can help you with expert stuff.

[00:58:00] That’s the first problem though. And that’s a problem. If that’s your direction as a salesperson, cause you’re going to get blown up. If you call an expert and say, I can help you, how dare you? You’re done. In your humble opinion, in your track record and in your, your learnings, what would be a great way to approach an expert in any industry so that you don’t cross that line?

[00:58:29] Love the question. I’m probably going to give away a good strategy here, but first. Be personable, personalize huge thing for me. So I’ve been doing some research with, MSPs, like sales leaders. what are you doing? What’s working? What’s not working? Where are you having trouble? I spoke to this one gentleman, his name’s escaping me now, but he said, I was like, what metrics do you track?

[00:58:49] He’s I want five high quality touches. Every day, super high quality. I want you to really do your research. I want you to know that business in and out. And I want you to make it super personal. And I echo that. So strategy that I’ve found for experts specifically, and anybody feel free to take this is, have they been on the podcast?

[00:59:11] Have they been, have they published a book? Have they been on stage? What was their last three content pieces? Content? Maybe. What are they commenting on? What are they like? Those are great ways to engage. Yeah. Yeah. if they’ve made content, but like a specifically, if it’s like, Hey, I saw your speech at X, Y, and Z conference.

[00:59:27] I love these. That’s what I mean. When you’re reaching out to them, if you looked at their last, whatever podcast book they wrote and even a content piece and you lead with, Hey, look, by the way, I love that. Yeah. And then again, I think the, this is the nuance of it. So I call this the one pushup moment, which is if I met you guys at a conference for the first time and I was like, Hey, can you do a hundred pushups?

[00:59:50] You’d be like, who the hell is this guy? Yeah. Even if you could do it, you’re just like, what are you doing? Versus if I was like, Hey, can you do a pushup? You may laugh and you may even do a pushup because I got you to do one pushup. It’s much easier for me to ask for two, for four, for five, for 10. And then eventually a hundred, which I think is like closing the sale.

[01:00:08] Yes. So I think the asks that people are making may be too much in some cases. And you need to read the room for that, but it starts with, I saw you first. I did research on you. I love this. By the way, I’ve identified two or three things. I think you should know about based on what I’ve done on my research.

[01:00:25] Would you be open to having a really quick chat with me about it? I love that. It’s beautiful. Friendly, not putting anything. I don’t know if I can help you, but I saw this. Would you be willing to talk to me? And by the way, it’s also if not, I’m still going to appreciate you and I’m still going to comment on your stuff.

[01:00:43] I’m still going to encourage and support you. Like it’s not that go or blow kind of mentality of what do you mean? You’re not interested anymore. Cause I can find you. I can, find everything out about you personally. I used to work with great guy used to talk about discovered or found out. I used to say that all the time, and that’s, a company right now.

[01:01:04] That’s a salesperson. Everything’s out there. So if that’s how you’re reaching out to people, that’s going to be found out. So I love, that is really, great advice. hit the pause button, rewind, listen to that again, because it’s really good. Yeah. People want to be seen.

[01:01:22] And going back to, the big overarching conversation we’ve been having all day, if you are taking the time to research your prospect before there’s a dime exchange, what does that say about your brand? What does that say about the experience of working with you? how about on top of researching, how about giving them something?

[01:01:40] And adding value, right? before. So the point of collaboration, right? And it’s a great thing for brands to do is to give to each other, even though you might not be doing business together, right? It’s you might eventually. But I love to see, That human interaction amongst brands where I see people on LinkedIn, like for instance, I was telling the team yesterday, I’ve got a couple of people on LinkedIn that I love their content.

[01:02:11] It’s amazing. And we built friendships thousands of miles away and they support my, and literally I could post anything. They’re going to give me a but the comment is going to be authentic. They might go, Hey, I disagree with that. Or they might go, this is absolutely, is awesome, but I know they’re always going to show up for me.

[01:02:29] What’s amazing is they’ll likely never buy from us because they’re not in a position to buy from us, but they’ll always be an advocate. Yes. They’ll always be a fan and an evangelist and I will for them. I think that kind of goes to what you’re saying, if you call up a potential client as an evangelist to them as a human being, an advocate to what they’re doing as a human being, exponentially your odds just increase of getting them to engage.

[01:03:02] Give, There it is. And they’re gonna be like, you gotta talk to, you gotta talk to John, you gotta talk to Lauren. It pays off. These are great people. There you go. That’s what people want at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s working and it’s, proof positive in my life that’s, that works.

[01:03:15] Absolutely. And that got, kinda goes back to patience, full circle. That’s the hardest one. Full circle. It’s the hardest is because anything that’s worth doing and getting usually takes time and energy and effort. There is no instant gratification in sales. There is no instant gratification.

[01:03:31] Yeah, In relationships. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it. You want to say there’s no instant gratification in sales, try branding and marketing. Holy cow. It is an uphill battle, but that patience of seeing, of being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel and being willing to do the work to get there is a, rare, it’s a rarity.

[01:03:51] Yeah, Stephen, it’s been absolutely a pleasure interacting with you. You’re a hell of an intelligent human and fantastic. But you know what? That’s not what stands out about you. All sincereness. Your heart stands out more than anything. You transfer great energy. And, you just a kind human. I think if you’re a sales leader, this is somebody that you would go, Hey, look, they’re going to come in and they’re going to steward our business.

[01:04:17] They’re going to steward our goals. He’s not coming in and selling you some, these five DVDs, if you like on these five DVDs, let me show you how I made my 1 million for my one bedroom apartment. He’s not doing that. He’s going to, he’s going to steward your brand. I think that’s.

[01:04:35] Ultra important, final word, give us something of inspiration. What’s the future hold for you? How do we get in touch with you? How does somebody who’s a CRO, a CSO, a director of sales is going, man, the market is out there. We need to get it done. And I love my people, but we’re just not getting over the hump.

[01:04:53] Like, how did they get ahold of you first to get in touch with me? Number one. Thank you for having me. this is so much fun. I wish we could do this all day. you can get me on LinkedIn, Stephen Steers with a PH. I’m the one with the hair. I’m really easy to find stephensteers. com, slash podcast.

[01:05:07] If you want resources, some of the stuff we discussed today’s there, then, the. Other part, I completely forgot what you said. Cause I was really excited about all the compliments. And like, why should, how does a, S a CSO, a CRO, like how did, how do they engage with you? What’s the first step, right?

[01:05:28] First step, feel free to get it in contact with me. say, hi, let’s talk. I have nothing to sell you until I understand if there’s something that we can work on together. So get in touch. Number one, if you want me to review a call and do that completely for free, I just listen and give you a grade. And that gives you a very clear little sample of your intellectual property.

[01:05:47] It’s exhaustive. It’s 30 different categories. I rate and rank a call. I give you timestamps to where there’s room for feedback. Hey, your team should be doing this. And that’s just, Hey, take it. And if you want to work on that, I can coach on that and stuff like that too. So a lot of different ways to engage more than anything else.

[01:06:03] I would say to train your people. Train your people. It is so key because if they see that you’re investing in them, they’re more likely to reinvest and see themselves in the outcome and the vision that your company has. And I’ve unfortunately been at companies where there was no investment in that. I think all of us across the board sometimes.

[01:06:24] And I only shudder to imagine how much better my career might’ve gone. Had I had that little, piece. When you say training, I’m just going to delve into this a little bit, because I need to know your opinion. Is there ever a time in someone’s sales career trajectory that training should just stop? I don’t, I don’t personally think so.

[01:06:47] There’s different qualities of training and there’s training from certain people who are at certain thresholds, right? But I think you’ve lost the plot if you’re not still learning. I am 100 percent with you. I think training is by roaming as well. So I think the idea of managing has, come and gone, right?

[01:07:04] People want to be coached. Yes. So coaching comes from, a coach, a head coach of a team is not in the locker room, hanging out, waiting for the outcome of what the players did, and then given a speech about it. The stats, right? A coach is pulling the strings, feeling the vibe on the field in the dugout.

[01:07:27] Is somebody down? How do I pick them up? Is somebody, not doing the little things that we worked on in practice all week and now I just got to give them a little reminder? Does this person over here maybe need a little personalized incentive that I can give? Do I just need to remind them of the two or three Questions that we worked really hard on because I just walked by and I heard them on a call.

[01:07:50] And if they would have done that, it would have accelerated their, sales cycle just a little bit more. So I think that the problem that a lot of organizations have is really twofold. Either don’t have any training or the training is too curated. It’s like we’re gonna do, we’re gonna do a one hour training, every two weeks.

[01:08:10] And we’re gonna, it’s gonna be a classroom setting. And no, first off, nobody learns that way anymore, right? Training is kinda gotta be like TikTok. Seven second video, next. Seven second video, next. Seven second video. You’re just scrolling, So training, Has got to be like coaching where you’re in the game on the sideline with them and you’re living and breathing it to the point where you even could take the phone and go here, introduce me real quick.

[01:08:35] Give me that phone, right? and then you show them how to do it or immediately after call ends, you role play immediately, right? That, that I think is the magic sauce that a lot of companies struggle with. And some of that having to do with it, things went hybrid. Or things went remote. That doesn’t mean you can’t do it.

[01:08:55] It just means that you got to find the technology and you got to find the time and you got to find the intention, the discipline to make sure that you do it. or you could just hire Stephen and everything’s good. But to your other point, the Olympics just ended. The top athletes in the entire planet all have coaches.

[01:09:12] Yeah, they all get your woods coach. They still get it. So I’m not industry changes. that’s my biggest. One of my favorite things to do is every single year towards, fourth quarter. I start looking at what are the trends for 2025 2026 all the way through 2030. Where is the industry going?

[01:09:31] How is it changing? What are CIOs concerned about? Today, tomorrow over the next five years, because those things shift and they change with the tides of shift and changing technology. And if we’re in the business of technology, like we are to be in front of it, to be innovative, we need to be aware of those things so that when we have those conversations and I am on the phone and I get to a C level, I’m saying, Hey, I would really love to sit down with you and learn, where you are looking to steer this company with these, three different challenges that have.

[01:10:04] Come up in this industry, or which one of these three is most relevant to you right now, based on the research I’ve done, which one of these three stands out based on where your organization is going and what objectives you’re as a C suite, you’re on the board, right? So responsible for shareholder value, right?

[01:10:21] Yeah. So that means that you got to, look at revenue, profitability, EBITDA, cash position, working capital. You got to look at the whole thing, not just the technology part that falls in your lap, but you’re looking at the whole pie. What’s at stake? What’s at stake? The big picture. Okay, so of these three things that I’ve, learned are really impacting the industry and innovation and where it’s going, which one of these three resonates the most with you?

[01:10:43] the discussions you’re having in the boardroom, right? And then from there, you can start to dig into that. But you can’t do that unless you do the research on the three first. And it’s changing. So having that hunger and that interest to see what’s going on in the world is key in sales.

[01:10:57] Yeah. It’s being resourceful. It’s being resourceful. You could be extremely resourceful right now by going online and going to www. stephensteers. com and you could look at Superpower Storytelling and you could buy that book and if you’re a CSO or a CSO CRO or a director of sales or whatever. And you want to take your team to the next level, you could simply reach out to Stephen, who’s going to be a joy to speak with, or, reach out to me and then I’ll patch you in.

[01:11:28] I don’t know if you’re nervous to talk to him or what your issue is. I’ll patch you guys in. We’ll send him a smoke signal. I don’t know. We need to get ahold of Stephen is the point. And by the way, I just want to remind you, Stephen. You got shit done. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Can your business handle 15 percent growth?

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