No Filter, No Fluff: Just John Morris, a Camera, and the Truth!

 Now more than ever, as a sales individual, you can become a marketing juggernaut because social media is free. All you gotta do is flip your damn camera on and start talking into it. 

Yeah. But I feel like we need to reverse the roles. I think people should learn about you, your upbringing, your professional career, and what you’ve been up to lately.

I’m, when the doors close, it’s likely 

I’m recording or I’m crying. I’m gonna look right in the camera right now and just tell you that alcohol and depression do not mix. 

The fact that you could just go in, log in an account and just build your own brand. Yeah. From scratch is easy. Right. And I was a 

director of sales that wanted to do a podcast, to get the phones, to get going and to tell the story of our brand because I thought it would generate more sales instead of selling one customer at a time.

I was trying to sell the world to pay attention to it. There’s one thing that all champions have in common, they get shit done. So welcome to the Get Shit Done Experience. 

Oh, welcome back everybody. We are here at the GSDX podcast. This is the Get Shit Done Experience and I look a little bit different.

This isn’t John Morris, this is Eric Weikert. I’m the director of help desk here at GSD Technology. So we’re doing a little bit of a role reversal here. So John, welcome to the show. Thank you. It’s a little flippage here. We’re flipping, it’s a little, we’re flipping it. It’s a little flippage. I, you know, I had this idea and we talked about it way, you know, maybe in like less than 10, 15 episodes where I was like.

You’re doing such a great job hosting. Thank you. And you end up, you know, peppering in a little bit of your experience and your personal life into episodes as best you can. And you do a great job of it. But I was like, I feel like we need to reverse the roles. I think people should learn about you, like your upbringing, your professional career, and what you’ve been up to lately.

I’m 

super nervous. This episode’s gonna completely flop. And it gonna be not because of your hosting skills. No, it just because people are like, oh God, really? So boring enough of this guy, such a snooze, enough of this guy. Like, no, honestly, 

I think 

it’ll be, we like the guy ’cause he brings other people on to talk.

Well, you could still think that I’m bringing other people on to talk. He’s just, yeah, 

he’s hosting. No, I’m hosting. But Neil, honestly, I wanted to learn more about you, John, because you have a lot of great insight into just the professional life of sales and brand marketing. Thank you. And brand, uh, you know, being a brand.

Uh, what’s the, what’s the proper term now? Brand, brand. 

Champion. Champion. I, you know, I don’t know if I’ve coined that phrase, but I sure as hell, I’m trying, because I really do believe that sales and marketing, you know, they’ve always worked together, but if you’ve been in sales or you’ve been in marketing for a long time, you know that there’s always been a bit of a tension between the two.

I came up in sales where, you know, we had appointment setters. Mm-hmm. So that was considered marketing. We had marketing collateral. There was these DVD productions. We were like, man, we got DVDs. Like infomercial. DVDs. Right. Yeah. And, um. They were pretty cool, but most of it was like drop off marketing collateral.

And really the marketing for us was, uh, a telemarketer, appointment setter would call out. Yeah, introduce the service, ask for 10 minutes for an appointment, set the appointment. Yeah. Well, you know, when you’re asking for 10, 15 minutes of an appointment for somebody to come in person to meet with you, how serious are you really going to take that?

So a lot of times, and, and they were setting appointments with business owners, so a lot of times the business owners would get called out, forget about it, say yes, but didn’t really mean, yes. So there was always this infighting and this tension between sales and marketing where, you know, if sales wasn’t performing, they were always blaming it on the leads.

Right? The leads sucked. The marketing department was giving us terrible leads, and then if the sales department sat with a client for an hour or a half hour, whatever, and didn’t convert the sale, then marketing was always like, well, the sales team we’re giving ’em amazing leads suck. So now more than ever, I really feel like sales and marketing, um, are having to mold into one.

Yeah. Because to be honest with you, if you’re an effective sales professional, a lot of the marketing, traditional marketing, you could take care of on your own. Like I can become a personality. Yeah. You couldn’t do that 25 years ago unless you had like a camera crew and you were getting booked for events and you were Zig Ziglar wasn’t my department.

That just Yeah. 

One or the other. 

Yeah. But you know, as just an individual sales rep representing a company, it was very difficult to kind of create your own persona, your own brand. Yeah. You were, you were out and you were selling. Now more than ever as a sales individual, you can become a marketing juggernaut because social media’s free.

Yeah. All you gotta do is flip your damn camera on and start talking into, into it. 

Yeah. There is no, you know, uh, like season pass to buy into for LinkedIn. No. Sure. They’ve got the premium, whatever that is. Yeah. I have no clue. But the fact that you could just go in, log in an account and just build your own brand Yeah.

From scratch is easy. Oh, well, not easy, but no, it simple enough tool for you to start Eric Serious, actually 

is easy. Okay. It is easy because it’s really just a matter of consistency and I think a lot of people talk themselves out of it because they don’t think it’s easy. It really is easy. You are already doing things Yeah.

All day. Yeah. Why not just capture some 

of those moments of what you’re doing? Well, maybe what it is is I might not think that, listen, when I am doing it shit all day and helping customers and going into meetings, outta meetings, to me it’s like, who’s gonna find that? Interesting? But yeah, it’s boring to you.

But to, to maybe your point is that. Just taking a second to record a video, minute, minute and a half of things that I’m doing where I’m popping into the team and giving them some directives or this or that, that might be exciting for somebody. Yeah. Or a whole group of people. 

There’s always savings, but it’s about way more than savings alone.

Total Technology Solutions Group, redefines managed print services excellence is the minimum standard. TTSG is a true managed print service provider. Deeply understanding your technology and business goals. Your business is unique. Our solutions are tailored to your current and future business goals. Our customer first approach empowers and delights.

TTSG can ensure your technology environment will scale as your business does. So as you navigate business and constant change. Partner with TTSG for premium advisement and seamless implementation of your technology goals. We set the bar high. Your people deserve it. Peace of mind. Powerful innovation. TTS g.com.

Yeah. You know, probably initially when people approached, uh, a bunch of housewives out of whatever state they were doing and said, we’re gonna do a show about, you know, the six of you and what your life is like, the, they were probably initially like, well, who the hell’s gonna watch that? Yeah. Like the, the, it’s just the con, but we all want to see a look into what someone else’s life looks like.

So, yeah. Um, for you, the day-to-day grind, you, you become desensitized to it. Yeah. Because you’re just, you’re doing it. I do as well. What I realized was, you know, if you’re an accountant, somebody who creates marketing for a living, it’s probably pretty interesting. Mm-hmm. Whereas if you create marketing for a living, you probably wonder what the hell an accountant does all 

day.

Oh yeah. I’ll, I’ll admit there was this show, um, called the Pitch back on a MC This was back, I don’t know, 20 2008 to 2011, where it was just like an hour long documentary where, uh, like Pizza Hut or some of these big name brands would come to two marketing companies and say, Hey, we need, uh, a campaign.

Here’s the x, y, Z of the campaign. Go. You have one week to do it. Oh, that’s badass. And it was cool to peel back the curtain and see like, okay, they go back, they sit in a room till four in the morning when they come up with the idea like, uh, you know, the pizza giant’s gonna come get you if you don’t eat pizza.

Whatever it was. Yeah. And it just shows the documentary be behind these two marketing companies coming up with the idea, the video, the print, the image, everything. Then they go, um, showcase it to Pizza Hut. And then there was a winner and I just, I was glued to the tv. There was like three seasons of it.

Yeah. I’m like, they made it seem so easy. Like, I could go, I’m like, man, maybe I could do that. So, but it was so cool to me that I wonder if anybody in marketing ever cared to watch that. They’re probably like, oh my God, this, this is the worst part. Turn it off. You know? 

Yeah. I’m just so curious. I think it’s brilliant.

I think, you know, if you look at like The Apprentice, Hmm. You know, that was a fascinating show because it was just business professionals and, and so on that were vying for this, you know, this opportunity to, to work for, uh, you know, a larger organization and have a, a, a larger role within that. So they were, I.

They turned, you know, the day-to-day grind of being, uh, a brand builder, a sales executive, a marketing guru, an advertiser, an operational expert, whatever it is. Yeah. You kind of had to smash all that together and, um, they ran competitions on that. Yeah. And it was captivating television. Yeah. And I really think that if you look at a, uh, a company that manufactures widgets, you know, people come in, they, they put their timecard in, they go in, they do their thing, they come in and out and, and they’re gone.

And, and, um, you know, if you think about it in that term, then yeah, it’s probably pretty boring. But the reality is, you know, the machinery, uh, that is making those, those widgets Yeah. Is complex. Right? Yeah. It’s really interesting. Yeah. And the decision making of, uh, you know, how much inventory they’re gonna purchase based on what the pipeline looks like and what the forecast looks like, and then how operations it’s communicating with sales and how sales is communicated with operations and operations, communicate with production, and then like that whole, that whole kind of formula Yeah.

Is actually pretty interesting. If, if you could find a way to document it Yeah. And tell and, and put it out in a series so people are like, okay, now I just learned that I’d like to see the next phase. Yes. Then if you take the people that are operating within that and turn them into characters like Eric there, there’s things now from working with you for, what, eight months now?

Yeah. Where I kind of know. How your personality, like how you operate, how you roll. Yeah. You, whenever you are walking by, you’re always gonna be, Hey, hey, Mr. John or what Mr. Morris. Mr. Morris, what’s going on? Which is obviously, you know, you’re not calling me Mr. Morris because of seniority or anything like that.

It’s just, it’s just how you talk to me. Yeah. So. Um, you know, and, and you always have a bowl of candy. Yes. Uh, on the, on the, so there’s things about you as a person that are characteristics Yeah. That make TTSG and GSD who they are. Yeah. The culture. 

Yeah. Yeah. So those are the things that I think companies should capture.

Absolutely. And I, you know, even just coming past here, like, you always bring that, that positive vibe, energy, I don’t think I’ve ever seen in here. Like, just pissed, like, oh my god. Well, I close the door when I’m crying. Okay, good. That’s the, this is the close cry door. 

The door. The door is when the door is closed, the camera, it’s likely I’m recording or I’m crying.

So I’m not afraid to admit it. If we’re, if we’re not, I’m a crier. 

I’m a crier. It’s good to get it out. It’s gonna get it out. So, Mr. Morris, Mr. John Morris, um, take me back. Um, you know, you’re a father, you’re a coworker, you’re a avid golfer. A very good golfer. Thank you. Um, talk to me a little bit about your upbringing.

I know you’ve kind of peppered in some history and you know, kind of how you grew up and family, but, you know, what was like 6-year-old John? Like, were you, did you go by Johnny? Did people, no. Jm, you know, was it just John and, you know, talk to me a little bit about, you know, just kind of growing up and where you grew up and kind of what made you enjoy the, uh, childhood that you had or not.

Interesting. 

Interesting. I, I didn’t really have, I never was a Johnny. No. Okay, good. Um, there was, there was, um, you know, athletics wise, every once in a while I got a, I got a Johnny, but. Um, very, I was, my father and and mother were devout Christians, right? Mm-hmm. So I was named after the Apostle John says my father.

Yeah. Um, so I’ll take it. Yeah. Apparently Jesus liked John pretty much, so. Hey, um, it’s a solid name, so we’ll take that. Um, what was my childhood like? Well, I’m the youngest of six kids Irish Catholic. Um, there’s a six, seven year gap between me and the next child. My parents wanted to have 10 kids. They had three miscarriages, still ended up with six kids.

The oldest child, uh, is 18 years older than me, never lived in the same house as her. Hey Katie. What’s up? Wow. I love you. I love you. She’s my angel on earth. Oh. Um, and um, yeah, so when, when I was born, she, it was in October and she had left for school in August. Wow. To go to University of Delaware and never came back.

Met her husband there and Yeah. And so on. So we never live in the same house. Well, I was born in New Jersey and then my dad got promoted. My dad was an executive for Kraft Foods. He got 17 promotions in 35 years. So we got moved around a lot. Yeah. Because every promotion with a corporate USA sales mm-hmm.

Was a new region that he was going to take over or whatever it might be. Yeah. So, uh, I was born in New Jersey and lived there until I was two and a half, and then we moved to, um, Arlington Heights, uh, suburb of Chicago. And, um, had just a fantastic, uh, traditional middle class upbringing. Lived, you know, six blocks from Walter Peyton growing up before he made it big and yeah.

Moved to 

Barrington. Um, so is that like a gauntlet then, being the youngest? Did you just, you know, get passed around getting beat up by older brothers and siblings, or was it pretty much a cool, everybody got along type, uh, with brothers and sisters? 

Well, you know, if your siblings are closer in age to you, I think that you probably would get the beat up, beat down kind of a thing.

Yeah. The only, uh, the only, uh, injuries, if you will, that I received from siblings, uh, was my older brother who was seven years older than me. It was typically because we were playing basketball where he was on his knees and we had a Nerf Yeah, the Nerf, uh, hoop. And he would play, and I think one time he fell on me on accident Oh.

And broke my pinky. But, um, I was kind of, uh, I, I wasn’t, um, it wasn’t a traditional older brother, older sister. That’s a year or two years apart where you’re like, you’re arguing over a piece of clothing or whatever Yeah. And you’re gonna fight it out. I was the tradi, I was the baby baby, like traditional baby, baby.

Um, and so, uh, how did I grow up? I I, I was a fantastic athlete as a child. Yeah. Um, and a lot of that had to do with, um, my. My, uh, uh, siblings, my, my two brothers, great athletes. My dad was a great athlete, um, and coached all the time. Um, and so yeah, I played a lot of sports. I, I had an interesting childhood in that, um, I was born with two, um, um, lazy eyes.

Oh, eyelids, oh, not eyes, but the eyelids. Wow, okay. Um, so that was a little bit nerve wracking in that, um, and you don’t know this, right? You don’t know you’re different until somebody tells you you are. Yeah. So there were times, you know, we’d go to the mall and somebody, a lot of times adults would say, what the hell’s wrong with that kid?

Or Look at that kid. Right? So you, you don’t, yeah, you don’t know until, like I said, you don’t know that there’s something different or wrong about you until. Until you people make you feel that you’re different, whatever. Yeah. But, so that was a bit, that was a bit trying. I think that that wore on me a bit.

And um, that certainly when you combine that with being a really good athlete, and a lot of the kids in the neighborhood that I, that I played with, I would play sports with were a year or two years older than me. Okay. Well when you whip their ass in sports, what do they immediately turn to? Oh, you’re so, yeah.

So now I’m, anything they can, yeah. So look at his eyes, whatever. So, you know, I got duct taped at trees every once in a while and got balls thrown at me. And then my older brother would, I’d come home of course, uh, in hysterics, crying, and my older brother would go, where are they? Yeah. Point ’em out and go, well, they’re all over there.

And he goes, how many? I go, there was three or four. He goes, okay. So he go, let’s go. Was your older brother Nick? Ow no. Yeah, so they look alike, but yeah, we, we would go find the three or four and he would go, which one do you want? I go That one. Yeah. And he would hold the other three and then we, I would take it to the, oh man, take it to the one.

And that’s classic. And then that, you know, that would stop for a couple months. Yeah, yeah. Right. And then it would come back. Um, so yeah, that was, that was a bit interesting. And, um, but luckily, um, my dad got promoted, luckily and unluckily. Mm-hmm. Like, I’d, I loved where I was, but yeah. Um, my dad got promoted.

We moved to Atlanta. He got promoted to take over the southeast region of craft foods. So from like, uh, two and a half to what age did you then move to Atlanta? Moved to Atlanta in, uh, gosh, I was. I was nine. Nine. 

Okay. So I was, I think I was fourth grade. Wow. That, I mean, how did that go? ’cause it’s like you just start to make friends and kind of maybe build a home at the school and Yeah.

Sports and community and then, you know, you uproot and head to Atlanta. It sucked. Yeah. 

Um, I, I told my parents there was no way in the world that I would ever say y’all, I’m not saying it. Fair point. Like a kid born in, I’m from the 

Midwest 

too. IB kid born in New Jersey. Yeah. From Chicago, right? Yeah. Right.

So I got this mutt accent of East Coast and, and Midwest. Right. Y’all. And now I’m going to Atlanta. Yeah. Right. And everything’s y’all. And, oh, y’all. I fell in love with Atlanta. Yeah. We had this amazing, we lived in Norcross. We had this great house behind the Chattahoochee River. There was tennis courts in our neighborhood.

There was a pool with diving boards. It was hilly. It was hilly. Yeah. Wow. There’s no hills in Illinois. No, no. So I was like, holy cow. I ride my bike down that thing and pick up some speed and the weather and, um, it was just a great, it was a great community. There was so many kids. I mean, we like got on our bikes.

We rode. Everywhere. We did everything. Oh, yeah. Um, and then I got corrective eye surgery there too. Okay. My parents, um, got me corrective eye surgery. Oh, so the way you see my eyes now? Yeah, that’s, I have scars over my eyelids. Wow. I should, I don’t, I don’t know if I could pull up pictures. I was down in Florida.

Uh, we have a house down there with, uh, they share with my siblings. It was my parents’ house that we inherited when they passed. And there’s a whole bunch of pictures there. Yeah. And I don’t have any pictures of, of before the corrective surgery. 

Okay. 

Um, so 

this could be a total lie, ladies and gentlemen.

No, don’t, I’m kidding. In my house currently? Yeah. Okay. I don’t have them, but they exist. So I was looking through and I found some of the pictures there, and then I, of course I left them there, but, so then all the ladies started lining up, right? No. Yeah. Actually, you know, I got a sweet bowl cut. Got a sweet bowl cut, man.

And, uh, yeah. Okay. And so 

Atlanta was nine years old. How long were you down there for? 

Okay, so I have to tell you this. Yeah. Because part of the package that my dad got to move to Atlanta. Mm-hmm. Um, ’cause he’s uprooting at that time. Yeah. At that time it was only the younger three. So my oldest, my, my older brother Pat, and my sister Susan.

Mm-hmm. Um, the rest were off. Yeah. They either stayed in Chicago, one was at Delaware. My older brother was, you know, uh, already in, in the sales game and making, making his way. Yeah. Um, and my oldest, uh, my sister Susan was on her way to college. So the only ones that were actually really in school were, were me and my older brother Pat, who was a sophomore in high school or junior in high school.

And, um, so Atlanta was awesome though because my dad, as part of the package negotiated that he was going to have front row tickets to the Atlanta Braves. Oh. 50 yard line tickets to the Falcons. Wow. And um, like 20th row for the Atlanta Hawks. 

Okay. 

So I was there, I was the, yeah, I was there for like the Spud web.

Yeah. Dominique Wilkins days for the Atlanta Hawks. Yep. I was there, um, when the Falcons stunk. Um, but that Billy White choose Johnson. Okay. Returning punts, like the tail end of his career. And, um. They had a, um, Georgia was really good. Mm-hmm. Like GE, Georgia Bulldogs, they have Tim Worley, like really good.

Uh, but the Atlanta Braves had Dale Murphy, Bob Horner, Ozzy Virgil, Bruce Benedict, Glen Hubbard, like I can name the whole thing. And the reason being is we had front row tickets right behind the Braves dugout. And I was this little bull haired, uh, bull cut haired kid, uh, with his glove, just like animated and so excited.

Yeah. And, um, every time the players would come off after warming up Yeah. They’d flip the ball. And I have a box of baseballs at home from all these players that threw me balls and foul balls that I caught. And so, but they were terrible. Oh, they were awful. It was, this is, this is, um, let’s see here. This is, um, like 80, I wanna say it’s like 83 to, uh, gosh, 80, 88.

Okay. I wanna say. Mm-hmm. 83 to 88. And they were awful. The people, no, the people were awesome. The team, the brakes dunk. Oh gosh. They were so terrible. Bad baseball. But it was it your front row, it’s like angels in the outfield. That’s the plot. Yeah. But I got interviewed, remember Craig Sager? Yeah. Who did TBS.

Yeah. Sideline reporting for the, all the basketball games with the crazy suit. Well, he worked for T-B-S-T-B-S was out of Atlanta. Atlanta, yeah. And he did the Braves games. So I was at. This might’ve been my first television spot. Okay. I was at the, um, I was at Phil Negro, the knuckle ballers. Yeah. Last game.

Okay. 

And so he was going around the stands interviewing, he wanted to interview the generation. So he interviewed some, some lady that was like in her eighties. Mm-hmm. She, uh, he interviewed somebody, you know, like a middle aged person, forties, fifties, whatever. And then he wanted to find a kid. So he came and he found me.

And I got, I was on the, the, in Atlanta, 11 o’clock news Okay. On the sports section. And he asked me like, what is it like to be at Phil Negros game? And I, I think I said, I think it, it’s really neat. It’s, you know, so cool. It’s neato. It’s really 

neato. Yeah. I, I feel like internet’s loose out there. Yeah.

Let’s go find that footage. I think we could find it. No, 

it send it to us. Yeah. So I, I’ve looked it up. So I had some really amazing experiences in Atlanta. Um, you know, baseball was damn near year round. I love that. Mm-hmm. This is where I got introduced really to golf. Funny, funny story. I started playing golf in, in Arlington Heights.

And the way that my dad discovered that I was playing golf is I was hitting golf balls off of the house next to us. Um, I was like eight or nine. Yeah. And I took a, I took one of his clubs, like an adult club, like a, an eight or 9-year-old shouldn’t be able to swing a, yeah, no way. Like an adult seven iron baseball bat.

So I was hitting golf balls and in those days it was aluminum siding, if you recall. Oh, yeah. And I was putting like, hail sized dents in the guy’s siding. Huh. And so the neighbor comes over, rings the doorbell, and goes. Um, I think your kid has ruined my siding. My dad’s like, how in the world would he have done that?

Yeah. And he’s like, well, he’s hitting golf balls over off of it. And the, all the, um, the dents were like second floor. Yeah. My dad’s like, there’s no way that my kid is hitting golf balls. But my dad covered that and then like shortly after that he like took me to the driver range. She’s like, oh shit. Okay.

No kidding. He can hit the ball. Yeah, 

you would. 

So when we moved to Atlanta, he joined a country club. My mom would drop me off at the country club, um, in the summertime. Gimme 20 bucks. Yeah. And she’d leave. Yeah. That’s how safe the world was. And I would play, I would just go, you know, I had my little cart and put my clubs on there and I’d go play 18 holes and I just kind of figured the game out on my own.

There were other kids around there, so that was an amazing experience. Yeah. Um, and you know, my dad being executive, uh, for the southeast region of Kraft Foods, like we got to do really cool things. Um, while we were down there is when they invented bullseye barbecue sauce. Oh yeah. Okay. And so they made it like their own brand.

So they had a bullseye, barbecue sauce, nascar. Yeah. And so I got to, uh, go to the, uh, the Daytona 500 and not only be in the center, but I got to sit in Sterling. Marlin was the driver. Oh my God. Yeah. Sterling Marlin. How about that? For a name? He was the driver for, for nascar. And I got to sit in the, the, um, the NASCAR.

And, um, I just had just an absolutely fantastic childhood 

in that regard. And so when you’re in Atlanta at that age, you know, I, you know, when I was five years old, I wanted to be a ninja turtle. Yeah. Like that’s, that was my preschool. Um, which I still do kind of to this day. But did you know at that age at all what you wanna do when you’re that into sports where you’re like, I’m gonna be a baseball star.

Yeah, I’m gonna be a golf star. Like, which, what path? No, I was 

absolutely going to be a baseball player. Yeah. There was the, there was zero. There was zero doubt. It was, that was absolutely it. And I was one of those kids that like, um, I think, um, when I was 12, my travel team took second in the state of Georgia.

Oh wow. Like we were, we were the, in the finals to go to the Little League World Series for like a, for, um, so we had to get out of the state of Georgia. And then we lost a Buckhead, well Buckhead was the team that had all of the Atlanta Braves like kids on the team. Oh geez. So they, yeah, I think they just absolutely don’t feel good about that win.

No, they would, they caught their still, but really good team. But I played for Murphy Kaler and, um, uh, our team, um, lost to Buckhead. Buckhead then went on to essentially compete in the southeast region. I don’t know who became the finalist on that, but we had a really good team. Yeah. I played shortstop and pitched on that team.

There you go. And uh, yeah, it was all, it was, it was all about like, golf was starting to come into the picture, but baseball was absolutely the thing. 

Well, I have to imagine too, when you’re at the golf course, you’re not seeing. Other 12, 13, 14 year olds there that are doing what you’re doing. Right. No, this, no.

Just a bunch of older 

country club gentlemen. Yeah. I was like 10, 11. Yeah. And, you know, I was hanging my, I I was shooting in the nineties. Geez. Um, that’s crazy. And you know, I probably cheated a little bit, but you know, when you’re 10 or 11, you don’t know any better. But, um, but yeah, I was shooting, I was shooting, you know, anywhere from low to, to high nineties, uh, about about five, five months 

in.

Yeah. I was just trying not to break a club or, you know, lose all the balls before getting off the course at that age. Um, and so in high school, did you continue playing baseball and all that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, 

um, my baseball journey was pretty interesting. So when we moved, my dad got promoted again.

Mm-hmm. And we came back to Illinois. Okay. I was pissed. Well, super. Yeah. You’re losing all those perks. Oh my God. It was, and, and I had just this group of like 25 friends of course. And just like, uh, I was making a name for myself in sports. Like it, I was really upset. Yeah. Um, man, interesting enough how things happen.

I, you know, when you’re a grown man, you make decisions in the best interest of your family, but also your own career. Mm-hmm. My dad did everything in his power. To create the greatest life for all of us. Yeah. Um, but he also was so focused on his career success in this and what he was doing for his company and for customers.

And it meant a lot to him. And you don’t realize that when you’re a kid. Like you think you’re very, me, me, me, me, me. We just took an interesting, interesting path and I was kind of thrust into, uh, sales. Okay. So took a straight commission sales job at a complete pyramid scheme in Chicago called PI Entertainment.

What’s up Devin? If you’re still around? Probably have no idea that I exist, but behind bars, uh, I, I have no idea. But this guy had a really cool thing. So he would go to paintball parks and cruise, uh, like Chicago Cruises, lake Michigan and the river and whatever, and he would essentially say, Hey, look, how much does it cost to for a ticket?

And they’d be like, 25 bucks. He goes, well, I tell you what, if I can get 10 people to come to your, your boat for this tour, they’re gonna buy food beverage, they’re gonna come back, they’re gonna bring friends. And it’s like, it’s this marketing. So the marketing idea is like, if I can get 10 people to come mm-hmm.

At a discount, significant discount, they’ll come back again because they had such a great experience. Yeah. And the boat would be like, all right, cool. So just get ’em here. So what was $25? He would essentially arrange a deal that there would be 10 tickets, the equivalent of $250 of value, but we would sell it 10 for 30 bucks.

Ah, okay. And so what I would do is I would get the inventory, he’d give me like $420 worth of inventory and whatever I sold, I kept half and he kept the other half. 

Okay. 

And what the boat place or the paintball part got was people in the door for the first time or whatever that would buy all the other ancillary stuff that they were selling at margin.

And they would come back ’cause they had great experience. So I got like super good at that. I made like $82,000 cash in like 10 months my first, and I’m like, I’m rich, this is it. And I figure out the sales game. And then I talked to a buddy of mine who said, Hey, my older brother is a lot like you and he, you know, he’s in the sales game and he went and found this consulting firm and he’s an inside sales and like he’s killing it.

And he’s like, I think you’re as good or a better salesperson than him. So he made the introduction. I went in for the interview and they hired me and next thing you know, I was selling small business consulting. 

Okay. So you think, and that was the 

first professional job. Do 

you think if he stayed at the first one, you would’ve gotten 

in 

trouble at 

all?

Or how did that No, when I say pyramid scheme, I don’t mean like we were ripping anybody off. What I mean is, but yeah, it was, it, what I mean is it was, um. It wasn’t like a sustainable bus. He wasn’t trying to scale it to 90 people and Yeah. Set up corporate layers. This was a dude who had just figured out an in and, you know, I was selling, and then he would hire two other straight commissioned people and I would go around and train them and 

Yeah.

Gotcha. 

And, but I knew that, that it was just a way to make a living. Right, okay. 

And stepping into your first official sales job, you know, what was that, how many people were at the, at that business? 

800. Okay. 

So 

you’re, so there was 800 people at the total company. It was layered. Right. So it was, um, you had your appointment setters.

Mm-hmm. They would write these leads, right. And they would call, they would make 200 phone calls, they would write 10 appointments, and the idea was they had to write the appointment in a territory for a speci specific sales rep. We called book, we called it booking appointments. Right. So they would have to book, they would’ve, two sales reps, they’d have to book their day for the next day.

So each one would get anywhere from four to five appointments. So they had to write nine appointments per day for the next day. Wow. And so then the sales person. We would go out and meet with the, the small business owner and if they didn’t close them, they had three weeks to close them. And then, and the lead was protected for three weeks.

And if they didn’t close it, then it would go into the inside sales department, which I joined. Mm-hmm. And then we would essentially call that client and take it over. Okay. And essentially offer like discount. We did whatever we had to do to get Yeah. People in the door. And the outside sales and inside sales job was the same thing, which was to get an analyst booked to go in and run a two day, no upfront cost, no obligation business analysis where they would analyze top to bottom everything in the organization, cash flow, accounts receivable, taxes, I mean everything.

And, um, come back to them after two to three days with, uh, essentially a breakdown of here’s where you’re strong, here’s where you’re weak, here’s five things you could do. And then offer them three options. They could do, number one, nothing at all. Mm-hmm. Which means they didn’t even have to pay the fee, which sucked.

Yeah. ’cause then the salesperson didn’t get paid. So that happened like 7% of the time. The second thing was they could take the ideas or recommendations, pay the fee. Mm-hmm. So then the sales team would get paid and try them on their own and reach out to us whenever they needed, if they wanted to hire us.

Yeah. Or we knew. That if they knew how to fix these problems. First off, they didn’t know the problems existed. Secondly, if they knew how to fix ’em, they would’ve fixed them already. Right? So they could hire us to do the consulting at, at that time, $175 an hour, which eventually got up to 2 75 an hour. But they would hire us for $175 an hour at a three to one guarantee return.

And it was on a project basis. They had to pay at the end of each week. And so if you were really, really good, you would sell, uh, surveys that the analyst would get a warm welcome from the client. Yeah, client be excited, participate, and then wanted to fix their business, and would hire us for a project.

And then you would get another kickback. Well, dude, I got really good at this. Yeah. And so I cash collected 1,000,002 in my first nine months there and, uh, got invited to Las Vegas for the award ceremony. Yeah. Met Bill Russell. Wow. Bill Russell gave me my award, my outstanding achievement award. I was surrounded by the best sales talent, just unbelievable.

Also some kind of not so up and up people. Sure. Um, they’re at every place. But there was, and, and it got a little shaky, but I always tried to recognize that my customers were buying from me. And I didn’t wanna worry about the people around me. Yeah. And that was a young thing, but man, I got really good at it.

Yeah. And so then next thing you know, I was like, within two years I was, uh, running the Atlantic Coast region. 

So was it safe to say like the sales bug bit you that quick? And, you know, starting with, I, I don’t even wanna go back to maybe college pros with that experience, but No, I learned a lot there.

Yeah. But at least with the, you know, the marketing, uh, with, with, you know, selling the boat tickets and all that, going into this now, it’s like, holy crap. Yeah. I can, I can make Was it like easy mode for you? 

Yeah, it was. And it, but, well, two things hit me. Number one, my dad, my dad and my oldest brother were kind of idols to me.

Yeah. Totally different humans. They always fought. They were like, yeah, yeah. Not fought like in a bad way. Sure. But they always had a different perspective of, there’s two ways to get Yeah. Like the, like they loved each other, but they, it was an oldest boy and a father, both hardheaded and they both were successful and they both did it totally different.

Yeah. Um, and so they were both idols to me. So it was in the DNA like it, I, I just, and um, but I had that chip on my shoulder, man. Yeah. And I also had, and I also had a little bit of anger. Okay. I’ve dealt with that. I had a little bit of anger towards my parents ’cause it was like, you know, you could have handled this different.

And because of that, like I, I was seeking out mentorship from. Other professionals, which anybody I think is going to do in their twenties. Sure. Right? Yeah. Like, you’ve learned what you need to learn from your parents, and now you’re gonna look for that next level of mentorship. Mm-hmm. And I found it from multiple people there, but mainly the owner, uh, the owner’s son became like a best friend of mine.

Um, and just amazing talent at that company still to this day. Yeah. Got into some trouble and did some shady things that eventually got corrected and, you know, um, got washed out and got corrected. But man, yeah, I was surrounded by like of Wall Street slash Boiler Room slash Glen Garry, Glen Ross slash like, who, I mean Wow.

Just some closers. Yeah. And when you’re, you know, when you’re around a 55-year-old who’s been selling for 30 something years and you’re 23 and you’re hanging with them or passing them, you go, okay, I’m pretty good at this. Yeah. And so next thing you know, I go from like dropped outta college. Oh my God. My parents hate me.

Oh my God, I’m on my own. Holy cow. I can sell these paintball and cruise tickets pretty good. Mm-hmm. Holy shit. I’m making a lot of money. How the, how in the world is a small business consulting firm hiring me. Holy shit, I’m really good at this. The next thing you know, I’m like 25 and I’m making like $180,000 a year straight commission, like selling.

And like, what are your, you know, at some point you’re obviously letting your parents know about your success. What did, how did they respond to it? Were they still like, have that kind of chip? Like you still dropped out though You didn’t get your 

degree, 

but 

No, that dropped really quick. Okay. In fact, one of the shining moments that I can visualize when it closed my eyes and it still kind of puts a knot in my throat.

I had, um, in 2005, um, the owner of the company came into my office and he said, what kind of car are you driving? At the time I was driving the three 50 z, like the first mm-hmm. I had the, like the, one of the first 50, uh, models of the new model of three 50 Zs that came out. Yeah. I had like the burnt orange one.

Okay. Yeah. I remember getting outta the showroom. It was like the only one they had on the lot. Uh, and um, and man, I, you know, I had this little, little speed be, uh, speedy car, had this firecracker of a, of a wife. Mm-hmm. And uh, man, I was just like, I was on fire, right? And I comes to my office and he goes, what are you driving?

I said, well, I’m driving that three. He goes, I can’t have one of my top performers driving that. And I’m like, okay. He’s like, where do you live? And I’m like, well, I live in this townhouse with my wife and. You know, we’re just saving money like crazy. Right? Sure. Yeah. And he’s like, he’s like, look, you’re only gonna keep making more money here.

You’re only gonna keep performing. You’re only gonna keep moving up the company. And he was right. But he also was also gaining more control of me mm-hmm. By doing that. So being influential and he was my mentor and I looked up to him almost as much as I looked up to my father. Yeah. And more so in some other ways because, you know, my dad was super modest in, in the way that he handled his money and there was no flash.

So you really knew, never knew how much he had. Yeah. Whereas this guy, like you could tell how much he had. Right. And he just was super powerful and this and that. So, you know, it was a little influential. And I kind of regret that now, but I also learned so much from him. And, uh, he goes, you need a new car and you need to go get a actual house.

Okay. So I went out and bought the Lexus. I asked three 50 and this thing was, had everything on it, and it was a brand new model of that. And I went and built a, a, a house in an up and coming neighborhood that was, uh, you know, 4,000 square feet. And it was just me and my wife Jesus. Yeah. Like planning, like we were planning of course, like planning to have a family, but like Yeah.

I didn’t need that. Yeah. Um, but you know, it was a pretty fricking cool house. Oh hell yeah. Right. So cool 

cars, 

cool house. Yeah. So like things were rolling pretty good. Yeah. And um, yeah, so the coolest moment was about eight months into that. Um, my parents flew out and, uh, it was pretty cool to have them fly out, put ’em in a guest bedroom.

Yeah. And my dad was a big Stella drinker. Okay. He loved Stella. Yeah. So I had, my fridge was stocked with absolute vodka, which was his other thing. Mm-hmm. Five 30 vodka tonic every single day for this guy. Had a and filled the ice to the brim. Two lime wedges in there. Yeah. And, you know, his pore was like 80% vodka, 20% tonic.

Yeah. And, um, and then he loved the Stella. So we’re standing at this island in my kitchen and he looks at me and he goes, you’ve done well. Right. So that was one of the greatest, um, validating moments ever and one of the worst things that he could ever said to me. Yeah. ’cause, um, that was all I ever wanted to hear, and I heard it way too early.

I wish that he would’ve never said that to me. 

Yeah. 

I needed it, but it took my edge away. Yeah. ’cause it was like, okay, well I made it and I, God, I didn’t, I look back, I, I haven’t made it. I still haven’t made it. Yeah. I wish I didn’t feel like I had made it at that point. ’cause I, yeah. ’cause I, the minute I felt like I had made it and I had done the thing that I needed to do, which was to prove them wrong mm-hmm.

To get their, to get their love back and to wash that pain away. Mm-hmm. I needed that, but I needed it. ’cause I. Sadly recognized that my only real true motivation at that moment was to prove them wrong. Mm-hmm. And now I had to achieve that, and then I was like, well, what the fuck am I working for now? Yeah.

What’s next? So at that point it was like, you know, my wife’s, uh, pregnant and with our first child. And it’s like, okay, so now I gotta start to reevaluate, like, what is my thing now? What am I fighting for now? Yeah. Because I got that validation. Yeah. So, um, unfortunately I took a bad route, which what I, you know, you’re young and you’re, and everything is materialistic and mm-hmm.

So I, my thing was like, well, clearly I need to make more money. And that became my obsession, my purpose, purpose, my title, and how much money can I make, and how many awards can I get? Yeah. Fuck, how wrong was I? Yeah. But at that time, and that’s how, that, that’s how that company operated. Man. If you didn’t have, if, if you weren’t making bank, didn’t have the nicest car, or didn’t have stocks, stacks of awards around you, and your name wasn’t on the leaderboard, who were you?

Who were you? Yeah. So that company, how long did you stay there for? I, um,

I left there in 2010. Okay. An analyst there, two analysts there left and purchased a boutique firm that competed. Oh. With that firm. Okay. And, um, they recruited me away to be the director of sales. And I needed to leave there because it was, it was just starting to break me. Like it was starting to break me down.

I feel like that’s just an intense, it was intense. Like you could only all the time like Yeah. And it, and it, and I don’t have, like, I have, um, zero or 11. The, I don’t have, I operate at five for a little bit. Mm-hmm. And then operate at seven and then crank it to 10 and I’m either zero or 11. And I was finding myself driving in like in tears.

’cause I was at zero and the fuel tank was just gone. I just, and, and I was starting to look around and I was like, like one of my, it’s a soul suck. Yeah. It was just sucking the soul outta me For sure. I was missing, you know, now my kids are getting a little older playing t-ball. I’m having to ask permission if it’s okay to leave 20 minutes early to go to see their game.

And I’m like having to argue to do it. And it was like, it just, you know, 

yeah. 

It just was one of those cultures, it was just hyper intense. And look, it worked really well for them. It was great, but it just wasn’t, it wasn’t a culture that actually was a culture. Yeah. It was a machine. I. Yeah. And if, if you were in that spot in your life where you needed to be part of a machine, it was fricking awesome.

But I was in the part of my life where I needed to start to be a father. I needed to, I needed to, to kind of see what the world looked like a little bit. Yeah. So I laughed and I went to be the director of sales there, and we took a $1.2 million company into $9.8 million in 2010 to 2012. And if you recall in the, that timeframe, it was coming out of a bad economy.

It was a pretty tough economy. So we were pretty proud of the fact that we took it from, from that to that. But, um, we ran into a legal issue with the previous business. 

I was gonna say poaching or, uh, yeah. Uh, forget the terminology there, but yeah. Comp, uh, what’s it called? Non-compete. 

Yeah. 

Clause or whatever.

So it was similar, similar to that. And I was kind of hiding for a year. Like they didn’t know where I was kind of a thing. 

Mm-hmm. 

And, um, yeah, so we were doing brilliant things, but then a judgment got placed on us and, um, uh, cash got, was frozen. Wow. So, um, you know, the, the, the two owners as in any situation like this, there was some infighting.

The owner that I lean towards, who I still admire greatly, who’s absolutely amazing, phenomenal human, I love him to death and has recovered amazingly, like bounced back, like. 20 x. Yeah, he’s brilliant. Um, but he was broken at the time and he was my friend and we were in it together and he was, you know, they were in a tough spot.

So they came to me and said, Hey man, can you, can you help us out financially? Like we’re tapped? Yeah. So I took, uh, you know, $45,000 or something like that outta my savings account and swiped a check to cover payroll for the sales team. ’cause these were all my salespeople. Wow. And none of the people on the sales team, including my older brother who I had hired Yeah.

Knew that I swiped that check Wow. So that they could get their check. ’cause we figured, you know, two weeks was gonna be enough Yeah. To get us through that. So the judgment got pulled so that we could get by. But now all of a sudden the word was out in lawsuits. So, yeah. Um, they had to default on their loan.

The business went back to the previous owner. No one wanted to work for that previous owner. I then spent nine months out of work with golden handcuffs on, ’cause I don’t know if you know this or not, but, um, there’s not a lot of people that are throwing around $200,000 salaries. No. Um, and especially if your resume essentially says that you worked at a company that kind of has a bad reputation at that point.

And I had a very specific skillset. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so I was outta work for nine months. So all of my savings, everything that I had built, um, I did everything I could to hang on to the house. Um, and to keep the lifestyle. My wife didn’t work. Mm-hmm. And, um, my savings went from six figures down to four. Wow.

Holding on to everything. Geez. And pretty much hit rock bottom and lost everything. Wow. Yeah. That’s that. I mean, and I know you so Hold on. It gets even better. Yeah. I had to go crawling back to the old company. Yeah. ’cause I, I couldn’t be outta work any, any longer. Right. So I went back to the old company.

I’m thankful they brought me back, but boy they made me eat crow. So I went back into that environment again and after I had had some freedom for two years of having a different environment and seeing what the world was like and seeing what my capabilities were and what I was capable of building and what I was able to do and how I, I had to go back and, uh, they gave me the worst region and I turned it into the number one region within a year That’s, and kind of was back on the saddle.

But because I was working 12 hours a day there, I knew there was no way for me to find my next thing. So I then elected to go out in the field on straight commission and sell. Okay. And, um, I. You can’t sell anything unless your heart and your belief system are totally in it. So I did, well, I did like 1,000,002 in cash collect, uh, or 1,000,001 or something like that in straight commission sales.

And I made six figures, but it wasn’t enough. Yeah. And then, um, my wife and I had a conversation and it was like, you, you gotta get, you’re gonna break. Like you’re gonna end up in a bad situation, you’re gonna have a mental breakdown. You gotta go do something else. So I then went on, uh, went to this kind of journey of all these interviews and I was in the same boat.

I, people were seeing where I worked for or wanted to offer me entry level roles and this and that. And it was like, I just don’t have time for that. I need to kind of walk into to a thing. So it became very trying. There I was de depleted all my funds. I had lost my confidence. I felt like, um, uh, I felt like God was paying me back from what, which is a terrible way to think.

Mm-hmm. Because God doesn’t pay you back like God is. There’s no evil in God. Yeah. But I convinced myself of that. So that kind of broke my covenant with God. Mm. And I kind of tailspin bad. And, um, what it really was, was shame and regret that, um. That I had made poor decisions, that I had failed, that I had let myself get in this spot, that I had taken my foot off the gas pedal, whatever it was, it was just a culmination.

It was, in fact, I had a bottleneck of thoughts that were so big that I couldn’t even get my mind wrapped around what it was. But it just felt like failure. I don’t handle failure very well. I understand there is no such thing as failure. There’s only winning and learning. But it took me a long time to learn that and a lot of failure to learn that.

Um, but it felt like failure. And when we moved from the house, we call it right to another house, any person listening to this call would, or this, this podcast would be like, that’s a nice house man. Yeah. Like, what’s your problem? Yeah. But every day I drove to that house, it felt like failure to me. ’cause I didn’t choose that house.

I didn’t earn that house. I fell into that house. Mm-hmm. So that sent me on a major tailspin. And, you know, you’re not uh, exactly gonna be successful when you’re in a tailspin in anything you do. So I kind of was like, well, I guess I’m gonna start over. So I took several different types of jobs. None of them worked out.

I hated every one of, I performed well at all of them. All of them wanted me to stay, but I just, it wasn’t right. And, um, so I, one morning I woke up, um, in 2015. Tail end of the year. Mm-hmm. I woke up at like three 30 in the morning, like cold sweat, like, and I went downstairs and I went, I went on LinkedIn and I went on Career Builder and all of the other, whatever apps were on there.

And I applied to close to, I wanna say close to 90 jobs. Wow. I mean, I, it was from like 3 45, 4 o’clock in the morning till like 10 o’clock in the morning. And I just applied, applied, applied, applied. So one of these companies reaches out and I took the role and I took the role thinking it was gonna be one thing.

I go into the orientation and I started to catch on. I’m like, okay, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. So I’m leaving the orientation, I’m like calling my wife. I’m like, I don’t know. I’m gonna give it a run, but I’m not sure. Yeah. And then, uh, I’m sitting in a Mark McDonald’s parking lot and the phone rings and it’s a HR recruiter from, um, a company that kind of saved me, kind of helped me get back on track, which is my previous organization.

And if you follow me on LinkedIn, you know where that is, right? Mm-hmm. And, um, uh, that’s where kind of life started back over. Yeah. 

And what do you think, you know when you get that phone call and it turns out to be the role that you’re looking for? It wasn’t or 

wasn’t. I got the phone call. I got the phone call.

Lisa Hilberg will remember this. She no longer works there, but I yelled at her. No, because she called up, she said, Hey, um, hey, we got your resume. You look like you’d be perfect for this account manager role. And I went off, oh geez. I’m like, and shame on me, but I’ve not shame on me. But because I had a, I had applied for like management role.

Like I build sales teams, man. Yeah. Like that’s what I’ve done. Did you look at my resume? Yeah. And it was like account manager role. Like I hate, first off, I hate account management. I would never apply for an account management role. Mm-hmm. If I was gonna apply for somebody, it would be in sales, it would be business development.

Yeah. But certainly not account management. So I like went off and she’s like, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I read it wrong. It’s for the sales manager role. Oh. I’m like, oh my God, I’m so sorry. Good save. Yeah. So then we kind of did like a, we, like we laughed about it. Yeah. And um, she asked me a question.

She said, um, in five words, describe yourself. And what she meant was give five separate words. Yeah. Not a sentence. Like determined whatever. Yeah. And I gave a sentence and that sentence was extremely confident with proper humility. Can’t believe I just remembered that, but that was the sentence. Wow. And it just came off the top of my head.

Yeah. And she goes, oh my God. Well, we’re a brand management firm, and that’s the best answer that I’ve ever heard. She’s like, you have to come in here. So I went in for the interview and, uh, the gentleman interviewing me showed up about 10, 15 minutes late. And I’m, of course I’m nervous and I’m walking through the sales department.

I’m like, okay, there’s some cool energy here. And I’m like, this is, I feel something here. And I’m gonna tie this together because I, I don’t know if this is the direction you want to go, but we’re just, we’re, Hey, we’re going. Um, it’s perfect. So I’m like sitting there. I had this, uh, power blue suit on with a hot pink tie.

That was kind of my thing. And, um, the woman at the front desk was like, you, you look really nice. And I’m like, oh, thanks so much. Right. So I just felt like a good energy there. It kind of felt safe. Yeah. Yeah. So I go into the back conference room and then Lisa’s there, uh, the HR manager. And then, uh, Chris Tasi comes running in, who’s the co.

1. And, uh, he’s flipping through my resume now. I had been on about 15, 20, uh, interviews. Prior to this. Mm-hmm. And every time they got to the major chunk of my resume, which was the company that I had referred to that had established kind of a bad name in the marketplace. Yeah. Um, a few of them I could watch their energy change or I had a great interview with them and they said I was absolutely coming back for a second interview.

And then they probably did some diving. Yeah. And I would get the, you know, with a, with further, after further whatever, we’re no longer gonna Yeah. So when he gets to the point where he goes, Hey, you used to work at this company. I stood, look, this is a true story. You could confirm it with him. I stood up and put my hand out and I said, is the interview over?

Yeah. 

And he looked at me and he goes, no. He goes, dude, I used to work there and it was the greatest experience that I ever had. Now this is what I knew. Mm-hmm. 90% of the experience that I had there, and 90% of the people and 90% of the work that was done was nothing short of Brilliant. Yeah. But the 10% was bad enough that it ruined the 90%.

Yeah. 

And that sucked for everyone that fought so hard. Yeah. And did so many great things, including the owner’s son. It was really, yeah, it, decision makers, this might sting frustrated with. IT issues, security threats and the stress of your technology infrastructure. Your technology should blend seamlessly with your business objectives.

Technology infrastructure management with limited resources can be exhausting and counterproductive. Do you have an MSP but still have problems and technical hiccups? GSDs advisement, proactive maintenance, cutting edge cybersecurity, cloud solutions, data backup and local 24 7 help desk can change the game.

Your technology should outpace your business operations to allow for growth and proactive strategies should prevent issues before they arise. Get back your time and your money with GSD Drive business forward. Leave the technology to GSD GSD now.com. He was, he was in that 90%. Yeah. And he’s, he’s taken it to a different direction now.

Yeah. Good for him. Yeah. Excellent. Um, but, um, and a lot of the executives that stayed there with him and I, I wanted to either fix it or leave. And when I figured that I couldn’t play a role in fixing it, I got annoyed enough that I had to leave. Right. So, uh, he goes, no, I worked at that place. I said, really?

He goes, yeah. He goes, I used to call and set appointments. I said, okay, so you were a bc We called them business coordinators. He goes, yeah. I said, interesting. How did you do that? He goes, well, I, I killed it. I said, where did you write leads? He said, well, I wrote leads for this guy in Connecticut, or No, this guy in Massachusetts and this lady in Connecticut.

And I said, you mean John Groner and Marie Ra? And he goes, what? And I said, yeah. He goes, yeah, it was amazing. All I had to do was write nine, 10 appointments a day, five for each of them. They’d go out to the appointments and before they would leave the appointment, if they couldn’t close it on their own, they would called into this guy and this guy closed like everything.

And every time he closed the deal, like I made bank, he goes, my first paycheck was $3,500 for a week. He goes, I went home to my Romanian father, I was 19 in between college. And I showed him I made $3,500 in a week. And he said, what the hell are you doing there? Are you selling drugs? Like, what is, how are you making this much money?

And he goes, no, dad. Like I write these appointments. The salespeople go out and if they close it, I get a commission. If they don’t, they have to call it into this executive. And the guy closes everything. And I go, that was me. He goes, what? I said, yeah, that was me. Now he was in a different building than me, but he actually was my employee.

’cause I oversaw the whole region. Yeah. And he didn’t know who I was. And I, I had, was closing all those deals. So he then goes, oh my God. And I saw his expression change and he’s like, this guy knows what he’s doing and this and that. And he goes, you gotta come and talk to my partner. Uh, and interview with him.

And, and, uh, went and met with him and a partner out at a restaurant and we hit it off and it was a great experience. And they said, well, how much do you need to make? And I was so desperate and so down and so beat up and so in Desi, in, in desperate need of being on a team and needed a mission and, and, and, and just needed a chance Yeah.

To rebuild my life. And I said, well, you know, I’ll take the role for acts. And um, they said, can you step out for like 20 minutes? So I stepped out for 20 minutes and they said, they came back and they said, well, the role is yours if you want it, but you’re worth more than that, so we’re gonna pay you this.

Whoa. And they said, if you do what you say you can do, we will very quickly move you up to this. And so within like 90 days I got a pay increase and within like a year and a half I got a promotion and another pay increase and geez. And the rest was history. 

Wow. Just kind of took off. That’s in, I mean, small world, so to speak.

Yeah. You know how it all comes together and you know, I have to imagine too, ’cause interviewing for positions, whether it’s sales or IT or anywhere, I feel like sales is very cutthroat. From an interview process? Is it not? I feel like how do you, ’cause your, your goal is to sell yourself Yeah. To get the job.

Whereas, like in it, or you’re just, A lot of people are nervous, you know, they’re, they know their technical terms and everything, but they might not know how to sell themselves. So what have you seen either yourself or just even just interviewing po folks in sales? Like what’s, what’s the key factor that this person’s it over another person or 

two?

Well, number number one, the art of sales in my opinion, is the transfer of energy. So a lot of it has to do with tonality. The ability to communicate and articulate, to be the ability to take something extremely complex and make it very simple to understand. That’s effective communication. So I don’t, I don’t know, I don’t really hire salespeople ’cause I think they’re super smart.

I hire salespeople because they’re gonna have an unbelievable ability to connect with others. At the end of the day, people buy from people that they know, like, and trust. In order to establish that you have to, you have to grab the attention of someone and make them feel something. Otherwise, they’re not really going to, to want to know you.

Yeah. And, um, they’re likely not gonna like you and you can’t get to trust unless you got the first two. It’s no like, and trust, and nobody trusts somebody unless they know ’em and like ’em a little bit. Right. Yeah. So for me, um, I always, I enjoy interviewing. I’ve always enjoyed interviewing because for me it’s really just a transfer of energy.

Um, it’s, it’s, uh, tonality, it’s body language. It’s, it’s, uh, knowing how to tell a story. It’s, um, being compelling. Um, and it’s, it’s not answering a question that you don’t have an answer for. Um, instead asking a question to make sure you understand the type of answer they want, and then fill in the blank, which is impressive to an interviewer because how you interview is gonna be how you sell.

It’s a microcosm of how you are going to interact with the marketplace. So, um, the other mistake that I think a lot of salespeople make is you’re supposed to close deals and part of closing deals is showing interest. You, you need to show interest in the customer and the client, not only for the opportunity, but just interest in that human being that’s across from you.

Mm-hmm. Like interest in their problems, their concerns, their wants, their needs, interest in finding a solution for them, interest in changing their life for the better. And so there’s a few things. Number one, I asked every interviewer, how do I make your life better if I get this job? Like, how do I get you promoted?

Yeah. So I would ask an interviewer, how do I get you promoted? Like, if you gimme this job, how do I get you promoted? Because typically the, the final interview is gonna be with somebody that you’re reporting to. Yeah. Secondly, I ended every interview asking for the job. I. I don’t ask what next steps are, right?

I would ask, I would say, Hey, look, I really love this opportunity and I really feel like I will do amazing things. And I can tell you, um, that I may not be the smartest, most qualified person for the role, but I will run through walls and you will see that I am the most passionate, most energetic, and I will fight the hardest, but I also have the talent and skillset to do it.

And this is a role that I want. What do you need to know? What else do you need to know in order to offer me this role? Yeah. And I don’t hear enough salespeople do that in an interview. Like, if you’re not gonna ask for the order for your livelihood, how can I trust that you’re gonna ask for the order for our co, for our company?

Yeah. And I can, you know, just since I, I’ve done a lot of interviewing just again for it, but I, I know exactly what you’re talking about in terms of like, just the sense of energy, the transfer, because I’ve hear, I’ve heard a lot of interviews where they just sound defeated. Okay, this is just interview number six Yeah.

This week. And I know just ’cause they’re looking for a job, I’m not gonna get it and let’s just go through the motions so I can please my spouse or my parents or whatever, or the unemployment agency. But then you get the folks that are coming in super excited, they’ve done all the history on the company.

They, they basically have placed themselves already in that position. Yeah. The entire interview. Yes. And there’s the, it’s like there’s no gaps left for me to say no. Correct. You know, like that’s, it’s so apparent in, in, in sales. I’m sure it fits a similar Well, there’s 

too many people that are looking for a job.

Yeah. And if you’re looking for a job, first off, you need to change your mindset because what you really should be looking for is something that your lifestyle fits with. That you can grow and advance with a career, a place where you can be part of a team, where there’s career path, where you have a chance to professionally develop.

And these are terms that I would say in the interview, like, I’m applying for this role, but in three years I want to be in this one. Yeah. Like I, and I would tell them that before they could ask it. Yeah. Like, I’m applying for the sales manager role. But my ambition is to be the director of sales. And I have a, a game plan in my mind that I will be there within a year and a half.

Yeah. Right. So like, I wish more people would come in because I will ask salespeople in an interview. I say like, where do you see yourself in three years? And they’re kind of like, eh, they haven’t even thought about it. It’s like, well, if you don’t know where you want to be in three years, like how can I trust you to manage a forecast, manage a pipeline?

Like how can I trust you to take where you’re at and advance it? ’cause you’re not critically thinking 

or think that we should invest the time and energy in you that you might not even be here. You’re not even investing in yourself, you’re just looking for the next $5 more for whatever down the street, or from home or whatever it might be.

That’s 

right. That’s alright. So this is gonna freak you out. Okay. I’m ready. So I walk out of the first interview mm-hmm. With, with, uh, the, you know, Lisa and Chris. Right. And I see numbers, I call ’em God winks. I see numbers. Mm-hmm. Right now I keep seeing 4, 4, 4 all the time. It means, um, allow divine timing to work.

Mm-hmm. So my angels, God, I hear you. I see you. I get it. And I’m, I’m listening. But prior to that I was seeing 10 18 all the time. Mm-hmm. I would look at the clock randomly, it would be 10 18. Um. I would look at mileage in my car. It’d be 10 18. I’d look at a piece of content that I posted. It would be 10 18, just like I would see it all the time.

Well, what’s interesting is 10 18 is my birthday. Hmm. So remember that mental state that I had told you about where I kind of crashed out a little bit? Yeah. Um, I had some real issues with my birthday. Like I just, uh, I couldn’t celebrate it. I didn’t want a card. I didn’t want anyone to recognize me. I could, I couldn’t embrace it.

I, I hated my birthdays. I would disappear on the day. Mm-hmm. Don’t, like, I would just, and this was like for five, six years straight, just disappear like I would be gone. Uh, and I hated the num, I hated the, the idea of it. Could you imagine being that off depressed, anxious that your own, your own day of birth gives you, could set you off into a spiral?

But that’s where I was. So I kept seeing the number 10, 18 and I thought that what that number meant was that something bad was gonna happen to me. Uh, so I interviewed for that role in October or November of, of that year. And, uh, when 10 18 came, nothing bad happened. So I was kinda like, okay, so what does this, what does this mean?

So I, when I left that interview, I got in my car. I. And I turned on the car and it was 10 18. Oh geez. And I went, okay. So I went home and I opened up the Bible and I was like, well, where is this? Where should I look? So I went to John 10 18 and John 10 18, and I’ll paraphrase, but essentially what it says is, God can give you all the power and then take it away from you, but he also has the power to give it back to you.

Wow. And so what I saw, that is a message to me that I had all the power. And because I wasn’t living a pure life, I wasn’t living a Christian life, I wasn’t, I was living a life of motivation through spite I was living a life of materialistic beliefs. I was living a life of me, me, me, me, me. Um, I wasn’t in touch with God.

I, I was, um, I just was making bad decision after bad decision that got took, took it away from me. And that was where that gap was. And that this now was my opportunity where he was gonna give it back. And so I rode with that and, um, I rode, I rode with that in my, my heart and my mind, and I let it. I let it go to, I let it eat.

Yeah. I let it go to work. And so from that point in time, were you then celebrating birthdays after that and seeing more of a positive No, no, no, no, 

1. That, that took me a little bit. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. We, we had, we, we had to, we did some absolutely amazing things and we did some really, really great things to get ourselves right financially and to take care of the family and, and to, um, get myself back to where I, you know, felt like I was accomplished and so on.

But again, completely missed the whole meaning of life. Um, all materialistic, all title, all control, all power, all who I am, all persona. Um, so even though I was given this shot, I still missed the, I’ve missed the, the meaning. So I had to have another crash out, which we can get into or not. But that crash out was the actual rebirth.

Yeah. 

And so I definitely want to touch on the, the crash out, but I’m just curious at this point, you know, to what you’ve talked about thus far, if you could quickly time machine back to your 14-year-old, 18-year-old self, like what advice would you have given yourself just to try to maybe get through some of those tough times or maybe even take a different direction or path?

Or would, did it have even worked? 

Yeah. Oh gosh, what a, I would’ve listened to my mom and dad that, um, that. Uh, you have to put Jesus first and, um, that God loves me. And, um, you have to have a relationship with, with God and Jesus. You have to have a relationship with Jesus and you have to talk to him. And, um, you have to work on the inside out, not the outside to the in.

So I was spending a lot of time on what the outside looked like. 

Mm-hmm. 

And I was destroyed on the inside. And, um, I would tell that kid that, you know, it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks about you or they see if you don’t have what you think about you, right. And what you see about you. Right? And that is not external, that’s internal.

And, um, I would’ve, I would’ve, um, I would’ve encouraged that 14-year-old to start discipline types of behaviors, repetition type behaviors. You know what’s interesting? If I would live my life, or if I would have lived my life the way that I play golf, I’d probably be a lot further along. Like if I did everything in my life the way I approach my.

Passion for golf, like the endless hours of practice that nobody sees. Mm-hmm. Um, and the repetition of that. If I would do that in other things in my life, how far along would I be? And, um, so, you know, give it to God first would’ve been number one. Number two would’ve been, uh, live a life that’s right.

Righteous and disciplined. And, um, number number three would’ve been that no matter how great you think you are, you’re not even close yet. So you better keep your foot on the gas pedal. Yeah. And don’t ever take your foot off the gas pedal the second you start to coast. Eventually you will stop. And when you stop, it is very difficult to get started again.

And if you stop and you’re not in the right situation, that stop will mean that it nestles in. And when it nestles in, it becomes even harder to get it going. I look at life like a boulder. When a boulder is rolling, it’s really easy to keep it rolling. When a boulder is at a dead stop and has been sitting there for an extended period of time, you have to rock it.

You have to push it and rock it and push it and rock it. And sometimes when you rock it, it can roll back on you. Mm-hmm. And roll over you. So you have to push it and rock it and push it and rock it. Eventually you get it over that ledge and once you get it over that ledge, then you gotta put your shoulder into it and you gotta get it going.

And then it takes repetition of continuing to push that thing to keep it moving and keep it rolling and um, you know, you gotta push it long enough to get to the flat part or the downhill part where it gets real easy. Yeah. And so, um, I wish I would’ve known that, that if you take your foot off the gas pedal, that Boulder gets really heavy, heavy and it nestles in and then it becomes very difficult.

Yeah. And I know you’ve, we’ve kind of mentioned it and talk, uh, I know you’ve posted about it before and if you’re okay with talking about it, but you just mentioned kind of the rock bottom. Yeah. And, and, um, kind of going through that incredibly difficult time and just curious of that experience from your point of view and, and just kinda walking us through just the order of events or how things went down.

Yeah. ’cause hey, I’ll say this. I’m, I’m glad that I met you. I’m glad you’re here. I appreciate it. All of our listeners and all of our coworkers and everybody, and I’m sure family and friends all love you. Um, and so I’m just, you know, curious if you wanna, 

well, thank you Eric, and I’ll, I’ll receive that ’cause I wouldn’t have received it years ago.

I would’ve nodded my head at you and smiled at you and wouldn’t have believed it. But I’ll receive that, so thank you. Of course. Um, first off, um, I lived a persona where everyone thought that I was really, really doing well and really good, and I had this lifestyle and I had this title and I was making hay and I was, I was on social media and I, uh, creating a persona that I was this and was that.

And, um, I was dying inside and I was, um, um, I was abusive to alcohol and substances and, um, just in a, in a, in a really bad way. And, uh, I’m gonna look right in the camera right now and just tell you that, um, alcohol and depression do not mix. Um, so I was doing what a lot of people do, which is when when you do all the things on the outside, the material things and you seek happiness because of them, and then you recognize that you’re not happy and you’ve achieved them, you break because you go, wait a minute, I thought this was the thing that was going to make me happy.

So I’ve reached this level. I’ve got, like, I appear that I have it all together. Mm-hmm. But I’m not happy. I’d feel empty, I’d feel like a shell of myself. So you go, well wait a minute. Like, this was the thing, this was the thing I was searching for. And I pulled it off. Like I went from, I went from rock bottom, lost everything to, to going through like this, this what I felt like was a, a thing that, that God was punishing me.

Like I was being dragged through this to, to all the, like turning it around and like people are looking at me going, yeah, we’re here because of some of the ideas and the fact that this guy’s collaborating with us and that’s why we’re here and, and this company’s growing and going and people are developing and,

and on the outside it looks awesome, but I’m dying inside. So you feed that beast. So, you know, you start, you start, uh, you start doing things that are destructive. You start drinking way too much and carrying on and, and, um, and you try and just numb it. And that doesn’t work either. Mm-hmm. Then you’re like, so if that doesn’t work.

So if being, reaching a level of success, getting the title back, getting close to where you need to be financially starting to build back, that doesn’t make you happy. And then like the party lifestyle, I. Added to that, that doesn’t make you happy, and like friends and family don’t make you happy. Like, well, why even exist?

So, um, December 19th, 2023, I had a break moment. I got in my car, drove as fast as I could. My plan was to drive myself into a, into a wall bridge, embankment, something, close my eyes several times at 140 miles an hour. With the, the idea that I was going to do it every single time, I would kind of swerve a little bit to see if I could do it.

Of course, just to be mindful, I, this was, this was out in the, the way open. There was no one around. I wasn’t gonna injure anybody. I was trying to injure myself. And, um, uh, I couldn’t, something kept talking to me, saying, not now, not yet, not now, not now. And, um, you know, my phone’s going off the hook, text messages are coming in, everyone’s freaking out.

And, um, so I hit rock bottom and, um, I ended up spending some time in the hospital and got right. But the first thing I got right with was, God. So second day, first day in the hospital, I ped, I wouldn’t talk to anyone, I wouldn’t eat. Then somebody came to me and said, you know, uh, if you want to get outta here.

You have to play the game, you have to cooperate, you have to go do the things. Like you can’t just stay in your room. ’cause the longer you just stay in here, you’ll stay in here. Yeah. So, um, so I went to the desk, said, gimme a journal, said, what do you need a journal for? I said, well, I’m gonna write in it.

So I, I took out the journal and I went into the journal and I just started writing. Um, and one of the first things I did was I asked, uh, for forgiveness. And then I wrote down that I forgive myself. And then that’s when the work started. And then I just started mapping out plans, goals, plans, goals, plans, goals, plans, goals.

Wrote up like 20 pages, just filled it. Um, and then, um, got outta the hospital, went back, apologized to my family, apologized to everyone that I knew. Um, and they accepted the apology, but at arms distance, like, yeah, we’ll see kind of a thing. Rightfully so. Don’t blame him. And then the work started. I started reading and reading.

Self-help, reading all self-help. Right. And started putting those actions in place. Project 3 6 9, uh, Bible basics for Catholics, um, atomic Habits, thinky Go Rich. Uh, good to Great. I mean, some of ’em are on the set here. I just started reading, but I didn’t really just read them. I took notes like I wrote. So I would read a chapter and I would write on it, like book reports.

You’re talking to a guy that probably in his lifetime had completed, honestly completed like two books. Like from cover to cover. Yeah. I skimmed a whole bunch. I went, went to page 36, found the thing I needed. Close it. Then went Yeah. Then went to page 60. Yeah. Never fully right enough to be dangerous to make it appear.

Mm-hmm. That you read the book. But now I convinced myself like I’m, I’m gonna be a reader. So I just started reading. I read like seven books and like a month and a half just went off and just started, um, devising my plans and, um, since then, I think today is 490 days sober. Oh, congratulations. 30 years of smoking cigarettes.

Congratulations. So I quit drinking, quit smoking cigarettes and quit all the other insanity. Yeah. Um, 490 days ago. Wow. No cravings, no nothing. It’s amazing. Rear-end church every Sunday. Yeah. Uh, talking to God every day, praying, constantly, journaling four or five times a day. Wow. Continue to read. 

Yeah.

That’s amazing, man. Yeah. Just that’s, you know, I don’t even know if I would’ve the strength to do half those things you just mentioned. Sure you would. Everyone does. But it starts with, 

it starts with God. ’cause you don’t have the strength to do it on your own. Nobody does. You, you have to have a higher power, a higher source, and extreme levels of discipline.

Yeah. 

Otherwise, you’ll just go back and, you know, I, in my personal life, I’ve at times questioned, you know, God and all that because there was a string where, you know, we talked to my podcast a little bit about a car accident that I had, and my buddy passed away in the car accident. Yep. And then about a year and a half later, my mom suddenly passed away when I’m 26.

And it’s like, well what was that for? You know, just, yeah. What, how, what am I gonna learn from that? You know, it’s, you took away my mother in my life and so. We’ve had a rocky relationship with it. But I’ve, uh, you know, to, to some of the things you brought up too, where, you know, in the immediate aftermath of those things, I would go seek out, like go drinking in the basement.

Oh yeah. Yep. Just, you know, let’s, uh, push it down, push it down, but then realizing that wasn’t helpful, you know, going and speaking with people, my family, my friends, and just letting them know how I’m feeling because everyone asks how you’re feeling, but, uh, I’m okay. I’m fine, you know? Yeah. In reality, you wanna say, this sucks.

I miss my mommy, you know, I want a hug from her. I want to hear a phone call. Yep. But, but like, if you don’t tell people those things and it just stays bottled up and it’s, and it’s, you know, I 

know. Well, look, here’s the deal. Like, have everyone’s, uh, journey’s gonna be different. I have a testament. My testimony is, is, is real, it’s raw.

Um, I was there, I felt it. Mm-hmm. I get signs constantly. Now, I told, I got one today. I looked at, I looked at a thing on my computer and it was, it was, uh, 4, 4, 4. Again, like, it just, it just keeps happening. Yeah. So, um, you can’t tell me that somebody sees the numbers 4, 4, 4, 15 times a week in seven different ways and that that is not something Yeah.

Happening a hundred percent. So that’s what’s happening to me. So I would tell you this, like, nobody can convince you to establish a relationship with God. Nobody can tell you that. Um, you have to come to that on your own. And some people are a little bit more difficult to mm-hmm. Achieve that. My prayer for anyone on this listening to this and for you is that at some point you have that moment.

Mm-hmm. Because it’s very 

powerful. Yeah. Gosh, man. Thank you for sharing that story. Yeah. I’m, I’m proud of you. 490 days you said. Yeah. That’s amazing. That’s awesome, man. Really, congratulations. When this airs, it’ll be 500, 500. Well, and something, even, even bigger celebration. Yeah, absolutely, man. Well, that’s, that’s awesome.

I’ve got a couple final questions for you. Yeah, sure. Um, you know, I guess one thing I’m always interested in is, if anybody, and of course yourself, if you could switch careers, if you were to just go back in time or another parallel universe or wherever, what career do you think you would be in, let’s say with no baseball and no sales or brand champion?

Yeah. What other career do you think you would be interested in taking on? 

Well, I’m, I’m gonna give you the easiest one and for me, podcast 

hosts. No, 

no, it’d be, it would be professional golfer. Okay. Yeah. And, and when I say that, I don’t necessarily just mean like, on tour, like even a teaching pro. 

Okay. 

Yeah.

Um, like I, I, I wish that I would have not been so angry when I. At 18 years old when I missed that cut, I wish I wouldn’t have been such a baby and like such a powder. And so it, ’cause I should have stuck with it. I should have stuck with the game and I kick myself left and right. So that, that would be, that would be one, two would be to be a commentator, um, a sports commentator of some sort.

Oh, hell 

yeah. Whether 

like a color analyst or even even an announcer. Um, you know, I, I know a lot about sports. I, I love sports. Um, I can, I can talk to talk, I still am contemplating if I need like a side personal podcast to talk sports. So maybe that’s in my future. But, um, you know what’s interesting that you asked that is I have had a career change and so I never intended to be a content creator.

I started creating content because as a director of sales at my previous organization, COVID happened and the phone stopped ringing and I had 30 something salespeople, of which 17 we had just on onboarded months earlier. Through an alignment slash acquisition. Yeah. And we were cranking, we were up 40% over the year before, and the year before was a 35% record breaking year, and we were up 40% in the first two months over that.

So like, we were absolutely killing it. And then the phone just stopped ringing and it was like, I don’t, you know, all I’m seeing on the news is people getting furloughed left and right and like, I don’t, I don’t, I love these people. Yeah. Like, I don’t wanna have to furlough them, but these, you know, when you’re in that role, you’re in the inner circle and you’re in the 5, 6, 7 people that are making the key decisions for an organization and you’ve got people’s livelihoods in your hands.

Yeah. And unfortunately we did have to furlough like five or six people. Luckily we were able to bring three or four of ’em back. Yeah. Um, but there was talk at one point we were gonna have to furlough 15, 16, 17 salespeople maybe more if the fall, if the sales didn’t pick up, we were going, we were having, you know, prior to that 500 to $700,000 sales weeks for a small to midsize company in our industry that put us in the top 40, top 50 for size of company.

And it just, it all just stopped. Yeah. And so we were kind of in a panic mode. So. I didn’t know what else to do to get the phones to ring. And I kept going to the salespeople and being like, what’s going on? They’re like, we couldn’t get a hold of anyone before, like we can. There’s, we’re not getting a hold of anyone.

And if we do, they’re like, don’t even call me because everything is shut down. The world is closed. There’s no mar no, there’s no marketing events, there’s no trade shows. And we were selling branded apparel and promotional products, like, like four events. Yeah. So it just stopped. So, um, the ownership, the marketing team, myself, some other folks, you know, contributed to coming up with 10 marketing strategies in five days.

A few of them hit, hit big, and then we had to kinda reinvent the way that the, the sales approach was and how we were gonna get this to the marketplace. We had really no LinkedIn presence as an organization. I think when I took over the LinkedIn, uh, channel there, we had like 500, 600 followers and I had, you know, 1500 followers.

But it was kind of a, I just had followers. ’cause I, you know, back five, six years earlier, you could connect with a thousand people in a week. Now you could only connect with a hundred. But, um, so, you know, they weren’t really followers. I don’t even know if there were connections. I wasn’t doing anything on LinkedIn.

Sure. So, so yeah. Um, like. I kind of dilly dollied a a little bit in 2019 with creating a little bit of content, just ’cause I was recruiting salespeople and I was just letting them know that we had a job out out. But yeah, in two, in, when COVID hit happened, I started like creating like, did you know, videos and like showing people our equipment and like showing our culture and introducing our, our products and services and our team to the marketplace.

And I just started standing with a camera on in front of me and just started creating. And one of the things that I had, uh, pitched in like 2019, I kept saying like, we’re so dynamic and there’s such amazing things that we do and there’s so many brands that we’re working for that are like elite, highly recognizable brands that we like need to tell the marketplace like who we are and how great we are because we should be proud of this.

Yeah. This is amazing stuff that we’re doing, like, but nobody knows but us in the company were given the stuff to, right? Like if, if the world knew who we were working with, they’d be like, well, if it’s good enough for them, then we’re good enough for them. Like, we need to work with them, right? Yeah. So, um, I said, you know, and so many just crazy personalities doing amazing things.

It was, like I said, I pitched the owners, I’m like, we need a podcast. And they’re like, what are you talking like, what are you talking about? Podcast? Yeah. And they kinda laughed like, aha, right. Whatever. But. And I was kind of like halfway committed. I was like, serious, but not serious. You know? I was like, how am I gonna do this?

If they say yes, go for it. Yeah. Like, I’m joking, but I’m also behind the scenes dead serious. Yeah. And so, um, I just kept saying it enough and then, and then a few times I said it seriously and I had built up enough content creation that it was starting to kind of make sense. And, um, so then we, next thing you know, I came in one day and all the equipment was like on my desk in boxes and I was like, this is badass.

And then we, we launched the podcast and we, we took off and I kept creating content. So, but I was a director of sales. I never had an intention to get into content creation. Right. I was a director of sales that wanted to do a podcast to get the phones, to get going and to tell the story of our brand because I thought it would generate more sales.

So I just started dabbling in that. And then that kind of took off and there was, you know, people underneath me that needed career paths. So I guess I kind of had to move outta the way. Yeah. In order for them to have the path, which, you know, I guess is a good thing. Kind of was hurtful at the time, I think, but kind of I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for that.

Sure. Yeah. So like everything happens for a reason, but in the moment I was like, what the hell? I think they’re, yeah. Did 

I just 

pigeonhole myself and now Yeah. I think like, I don’t know, like what did I just do? Yeah. And so, uh, yeah, so I moved into a role that was marketing and branding and content creation and, and like recruiting and getting the word out and it kind of like, you know, became a pretty cool role.

Yeah. And so, but it became a complete career change. ’cause I was no longer managing salespeople. I was no longer selling. I was, instead of selling one customer at a time, I was trying to sell the world to pay attention to us. Yeah. So I was, I guess I was still selling, but I was selling the world. Do you think it’s more pressure for the content creation than sales?

Yeah. And I’ll tell you why. Uh, I need immediate gratification and it’s in sales, you make x amount of calls. You embrace rejection, you know it’s coming, you know, that cliche, but 10 yeses, you know, on the 11th, one or 10 nos, you know, on the 11th one, it’s a yes. Yeah. Right. So you start to, you start to get the science and you start to know, but, um, the wind are fast.

Even if it’s a longer sales cycle. Sure you can, you know what the wins are and you, you, there’s predictability. It’s like, I know if I make 200 phone calls, 40 are going to answer. And if 40 answer 20 tell me to go to hell, 20, give me time of the 20 that gave me time, then 10 of those 20 tell me to go to hell, the other 10 remain.

Uh, and then of that 10, five say, not now, call me back in six months. The other five say, send me a proposal of the five, two, just say, hell no way too expensive. Or we’re going with somebody else. The other three, you’re in the mix. Yeah. You find a way and you just can measure that formula. So you’re, you’re, so you can measure the wins on each stage.

You’re just trying to advance, just keep it, moving them through that stage. Content creation is, is trying on me, when I say trying like, it’s, it’s like nerving. Yeah. Because I could create the most amazing content piece. I just absolutely think it’s amazing and I really like it and I show other people and they, they really like it.

Yeah. And it just, it’s like throwing a pebble into the abyss. Yeah. It’s like, did anyone even care that that happened? Yeah. And then there was other times where I just will be walking and I’ll put a camera on myself and I’ll say two sentences and I’m like, this is, I just needed to get something out there and whatever.

Or I’ll write about, you know, sobriety or I’ll write about winning the club championship on a business platform. And that’s the thing that takes off. It takes off, right? Yeah. So it’s, it, it’s like there’s a science to it, but there’s also a bit of of luck, and I don’t even know if it’s luck. I think it’s, it’s people show up to personal platforms for multitudes of reasons.

There’s some people that are creators on LinkedIn where people don’t care about their life. What they care about is the knowledge that that person has, and that’s the only thing that they’re there for. They want the nuggets. Yeah. There’s other people that have great nuggets and wanna offer them up.

People care a little bit less about that and more about the person. Yeah. I happen to be one of those people where I think people like me are rooting for me or care more about me than they do what I do. Mm. So that’s interesting because I have to tell the world, what do I do? Yeah. I have to tell people what I do.

It’s part of my job. Yeah. But what I’ve done through AB testing is I’ve realized that people care more about me. So I kind of have to tell more about me. And then, oh, by the way, here’s what I do. Tag it on. 

Yeah. 

So it’s like we gotta be more entertaining with informing. Yeah. And eventually people will go, Hey, when I need that, I’m going to him ’cause I like him.

Yeah. Whereas there’s other people whose, you know, who do the same type of message all the time, just in different ways. And if they posted about who they were or what they stand for or their life journey, it just wouldn’t stick. ’cause they’ve never really been that vulnerable. Yeah. So, um, it’s been interesting ’cause this is a career, this is a career change.

Yeah. So I say, I would say the third answer to that is that I would be a content creator. Yeah. And I would, I would do, I would, I would sponsor, I would represent brands. I would promote brands. And I would do it in super interesting ways so that it’s not boring to people that are trying to receive business content.

And what do you think, you know, I know let’s put our future cap on 10 years from now. ’cause we, you know, we went through like the TikTok, I mean, we’re still in it, right? But like, TikTok, Instagram, this, that, the other, what do you think the future of content creation’s gonna be? It’s still just gonna be video platform on apps.

Is it gonna be, I don’t know, like ven venue based, like people going to place I, you know, where do you think the future of content creation is gonna go that’s gonna capture more sales and more? 

Well, I think AI is gonna, AI is going to, is going to become more relevant, but it’s gonna become more relevant from the standpoint of um, speed to creation.

Um, ease of use. Um, there’s a lot of time consuming ticky tack types of things mm-hmm. That turn people off as it relates to getting involved in creating content and using those platforms. And I think AI solves for some of that. Yeah. Like the editing or making a template, you know. Yeah, yeah. And being able to schedule it out.

Yeah. There’s already these things, but I think it’ll advance, sort of become even easier. Yeah. I think that, you know, you’ll see things smashed together where, you know, the platforms will advance, where you’ll be able to do more things on the platform instead of having to use an app and do it pre and then add it to the platform.

Yeah. I think the platforms will gobble up like. I could see, you know, in Instagram buying Canva. Sure. You know what I mean? And, and kind of molding, folding it into the thing. So on the Instagram app, as a creator, you can do it all on the app. Yeah. You could create a digital Yeah. Uh, one pager. Yeah. Um, and do video.

I see major advancement in that regard. Where the platforms will catch on that, hey, some of these apps that people are spending a dollar 99 a month or $4 a month for 69 99 a year. Yeah. Like what if you could just go to TikTok or Instagram or LinkedIn? What if you could go to LinkedIn and create all of the content on it?

Mm-hmm. Like you could edit, you can’t edit on LinkedIn. You gotta do it all pre and then, and then upload. But what if I could go onto LinkedIn and had some of the features that TikTok has? Yeah. But there are things on TikTok that you can’t do. Like you can’t do a one pager graphic. Like you can’t do a news.

So somebody’s gonna figure out that for creators that are doing it for their personal and corporate brand, like to be able to have a dashboard of all these tools at one place will be powerful. Yeah. What I think on the other hand is, is going to happen is, um. It’s gonna become more humanized because the more technical it becomes on the backside of creating, the more that’s going to annoy consumers of content because we don’t wanna see AI stuff.

Yeah. Like I, I wanna see humans doing human things, but if AI can make it faster, cooler, sure. More innovative, that’ll be awesome. But I think that you’re gonna see, you’re gonna see in 10 years the director of operations of an organization is an influencer. Yeah. Um, because they’re, they’re, they’re building their personal brand for their own wellbeing to make them sticky and hireable.

’cause it’s a, it’s a fluid resume. Yeah. Um, and you’re gonna see. More CEOs and founders doing what? Gary V and Grant Cardone, Gar, uh, grant Cardone and Alex, her have done, where they spend more time, more of their time behind a camera than they do sitting at a desk doing CEO work. Yeah. So you’re gonna see small to midsize business owners coming to the realization that they are the face of the brand and actually owning that and taking that Yeah.

And becoming the spokesperson for their own company. 

Yeah. And being able to, you know, relate to the people that are buying your product, to the people that you’re trying to 

telling the story. Being the ultimate salesperson. And when I say the ultimate salesperson, the ultimate salesperson used to be the person who would get in front of a customer and do a great sales and close the sale.

Now the ultimate salesperson has got to, um, be an attention grabber. They have to be somebody who inspires. They have to be able to give the secret sauce. They have to be able to give a look into a day in their life. They have to be a doc walking documentary. Um, they have to sell the total vision. They have to become the ultimate recruiter.

Yeah. Um, like, people don’t want to go work for a company. They wanna go work for the people running that company. Yep. They, they don’t want to be on the Yankees. They want to go play for, uh, the Coach Boone. Yeah. Yeah. And they wanna play next to those players. Yeah. Like being on the Yankees is awesome because the tradition and the brand, so you gotta build that too.

But I don’t get to go play with Mickey Mantle. Yeah. Right. In 2025. Yeah. I get to go play with, I don’t even, who’s there now? I’ve Stanton, whatever. Yeah. I don’t know. I get to go play with them. I should use the Cubs as an analogy because I know everything about them. But you get what I’m saying? Like, so I see, I see that 10 years from now where people have caught onto the fact that, um, you don’t need a marketing department.

You need a media company within your company. Yeah. Um, social media creators and influencers will become just as important if not more important than salespeople will. Yeah. And salespeople, um, that can do social media creation, double whammy. We’ll be the most powerful salespeople out there because they will be personal brands.

They will be ultimate brand champions. Yeah. They will be able to tell stories to thousands of people at one time. They will be able to sell people in person while they’re selling somebody in person. Somebody else is seeing their content and clicking on it and buying from them while they’re in an appointment selling to somebody else.

Yep. Like they, they, they will become their own, their own walking sales organization. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That’s, and if it’s already starting, and if you’re not doing it. I don’t know what the hell’s wrong and why you’re not, and you need to get over the fear and I can help you with that. And I’m already seeing it happen for a ton of creators.

I personally am doing it. It’s, it’s working. Mm-hmm. Um, and it would work much better if brands would fully adopt it collectively instead of having one or two people at their company that are doing it. Yeah. And nobody else gives a shit. Yeah. Like if the whole company adopted it as a way of operation mm-hmm.

That we’re all creating, we’re all documenting, we’re all telling the story. Yeah. And we’re all gonna have our own little button where somebody could buy from Eric Weikert. Yeah. Even though he’s director of help desk. Yeah. And is not necessarily sales customer facing, but he is customer facing with current clients.

But he has his own little link that I love Eric. I could buy from him, or I wanna work for Eric. I have, I can click the link and get an interview with him. Yeah. Instead of having to go through. You know, a hiring, uh, person who, a from HR who sets up the, the interview screen, then screens, whatever. Yeah.

Somebody could reach out directly to Eric and go, Hey, I see your content. I’ve been working level one help desk for two years. Um, nobody is like you. I wanna come work for you. Yeah. And I hope that you can, you know, create career path for me so I can get to level two, level three, level four. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Like, how the hell do they do that if they don’t see who you are, what you stand for, and what you’re all about, where they have an opportunity to go, that’s the person I wanna work for.

You become more powerful for GSD technologies and TTSG if you do that and you become somebody who goes up the fast track of career path because you, you now are an advocate for the organization on a whole different level. Yeah. 

And I think, you know, unless you have somebody on the inside at the company that’s already working there, um, who can kind of tell you what it’s about, then you’re just relying on your own instinct.

Like, Hey, the, the interview seemed like it went nice. The manager seems okay. But then when you get there, it’s like, that could be a terrible experience, could be a shitty job that you work for just a bad culture. Or you see a place that’s peeling back the curtain on a day, day-to-day basis, showing the videos.

We’re out in the road, right? We’re hitting the streets. We’re, you know, having a quick chat with Tim in his office. We’re doing some goofy moment at the help desk, right? Like that shows you, you know, we’re not saying, all right, everybody action. Remember your script. Right? No, take a look. It’s legit 

in the four walls of our building.

This is what it would feel like to work here. Yeah. And I know it works ’cause I did it at another brand and when I left there, there was 300 people in the pipeline that wanted to come work there. Yeah. And they wanted to come work there, not because they saw something on Indeed. Right. They wanted to come work there because they saw four years of daily content, creation of culture and high energy.

Yeah. And thought leadership. And it made them go, I want to go work with or for them. Yeah. Right. So this is already happening at some companies. It should be happening at far more. And if you’re a small to midsize business owner and you’re not doing this, you’re, you’re at a total disadvantage. Because if corporate USA gets over their virtue signaling and their, you know, we’re not human, we’re robots and everyone speaks HR language and nobody has any personality and there’s no vulnerability and nobody’s really authentic and we don’t swear here and all that shit.

Once a corporation, a large corporation, figures out that they need to open up the four walls and let people in. Like a Gary V has, small to mid-size businesses are gonna be in big trouble. Mm-hmm. Where small to mid-size businesses have an opportunity right now as big corporations because they feel like they can’t control the social media.

They police it hardcore. Mm. So they’re actually holding their people back from doing, and then their people go, well, if I’m gonna be policed, 

I’m just not gonna do it. Period. Yeah. Yeah. I won’t name any names, but, uh, in previous lives, um, yeah, you had to really watch what you put out. And again, your personal life should be separate than your corporate life.

But even if you were trying to post something about the company in a positive way, they might, HR would call you the next day saying, you need to take that down. We don’t see that’s, we don’t do that thing here. 

See, that’s the mold I wanna break. ’cause I don’t think your corporate life should be different from your personal life.

That means you’re living two lives. Sure. So like, why would I live two lives? I am who I am. Take it or leave it. Yeah. And if I’m not right for your brand as who I am authentically, and I, I gotta lie to the world. Yeah. In order to represent your brand. Same straight James. But I’m, I’m, I’m actually different than I than you got a brand problem.

Yeah. Like so, or, or you’ve got an, uh, an employee that doesn’t match your brand. So like, if, if me being myself. Doesn’t fit your brand, then the brand should say, you shouldn’t work here and I should catch on and go, I don’t wanna work here. Yeah. And, and I go find a place that is accepting Yeah. Of the thing.

And I think that’s, you know, one thing I really enjoyed about uh, coming on board here at GSD was that feeling of acceptance. That when I sat down and spoke with Tim or just spoke with some of the folks that were already working here, it’s just like, oh, I don’t have to like, put on an act like, oh my god.

You know, like, let’s look through my resume. It’s more like, what do you want to get done here? How can we do it together? Everybody’s able to collaborate. Your ideas mean more than ours right now, just because we’re not in a spot where we know how to do these things. Yep. It was all just like so welcoming.

Like Yeah. Like here’s the 

boundaries. 

Oh, breath of for sure. Don’t do 

this. Yeah. You’re amazing if you do this freedom in between. Yeah. But I will tell you to the point, there’s only one thing that you absolutely should not touch, and that would be politics. Yep. Like, there’s it like, and not because you don’t have a right to believe what you believe.

Yeah. And not because you don’t have a right to support one person or another. This is the beauty of being in a free country. Yeah. That one of the few left that actually can, is supposed to be able to speak its mind and say what it’s gonna say. It’s not that that is the problem. The problem is that society is so polarized and has stopped listening and communicating to the point where if you say you believe one side or the other, you split your market in half.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that’s the reason. It’s not because you shouldn’t Yeah. Be supportive of your beliefs and stand for what you stand for. It’s because from a business standpoint, you’re shrinking your market by half because the market is just Yeah. Kinda wackadoodle on politics right now. So I would just recommend you stay away from it.

But yeah, but everything else, fair game, everything else. Like why not? Like, look, I’m, I’m doing a podcast right now where I just told you very intimate things where, you know, people could listen to this and be like, why the hell would you do this? Like, what are people gonna think about you? Like, how does that make other people feel?

It’s like, well, my strength is in truth, truth sets you free. So I’m just, this is all truth. Yeah. And, and like, how can I, how can you fully connect with somebody unless. 

You feel like they’re, they’re true. Yeah. And I’m sure you know, even just hearing your story, that there’s other people out there that are gonna listen to this.

Be like, that’s the whole, Hey, I’m, wow, I’m, maybe I’m leading up to the point where he’s talking about that that’s me right now. Maybe. And he gave me some advice that maybe I should try this path versus that path. You know, maybe try it, maybe it’ll work. Yeah. 

I mean, you know, kind of the idea is like, if, if, if you can help one person, shouldn’t you?

Yeah. So why wouldn’t you? If, if me being vulnerable and a little bit uncomfortable helps one person, then shame on me if I’m not willing to go there and I’m not uncomfortable anymore. The problem was I lived 48 years of my life being uncomfortable. I’m now comfortable. Yeah. And the 

comfort came from truth.

And I see you sitting so relaxed this whole two hours plus we’ve been sitting. Yeah. There’s no like, you know, feeling the weight. It’s just, uh, I’m just, it’s just you being you, which is great. And by the way, I got a shit ton of 

problems. Like, I gotta, I, like, I look at a, I look at bills and I look at bank account and I look at the, sure.

I look at the state of the world and going grocery shopping and not, not buying anything that’s super lavish. And it’s like, that was 350 bucks. Oh my God. Am my kid. I got three boys, man, they’re gonna eat me out of the house. Exactly. I gotta go back next week and do that again. Oh God. Like, so, you know, everyone’s got problems, but.

Um, this is the first time in a long time in my life where I feel really powerful and I feel really powerful because I worked on the inside out instead of working on the outside in. You can’t do it that way. You gotta get the inside right first. So I got the inside right, right now. And it also helps when golf season, cough season helps.

Yeah. That gets 

rid of a 

lot of depression. Yeah. So, John, I got two final questions for you. Sure. Yep. Um, if you could have dinner with anybody, past or present, who would you sit down and wanna have dinner with? Nice two hour meal, whether it’s in sports, politics, celebrity. When you say past 

or present, how do you, what do you mean?

Uh, let’s just say you want to have, uh, uh, dinner with Abraham Lincoln. Okay. So they could be alive or day they could be alive or dead. Yep. Okay. So who would you want to just sit down and have a dinner with? Whether you’re eating or not, or whatever. Just a sit down, nice conversation for two hours. Maybe even just a podcast.

Let’s say that. 

My mom and dad. Okay. Yeah. I miss ’em. Yeah, that’s it. 

Okay. 

I mean, there’s, you know, there’s a lot of, um, stuff that was unresolved. Unfortunately, my mom had dementia for 10 years, so that’s, you know, as challenging as think of a, could there be any more terrible of a thing for a human to be trapped in their own mind and, and to be physically well, but.

Gone. Yeah. But that’s, let’s not lose sight of the fact of how difficult that is for a family. Like your mom’s there, but she doesn’t know who you are. Like, that’s really hard. And yeah, there was a lot of things that were not cleared up with my dad before he passed that. Um, I, I would imagine he probably regrets, and I probably do.

There’s, there was a lot more love to be talked about. Um, there was a lot more thank yous to be given on my side. I think there was a lot more of him needing to understand where I was coming from. You know, my dad, you know, that generation didn’t understand mental health issues. Um, and, you know, my brothers and sisters look back and go, oh God, yeah, dad had major anxiety and depression.

Mm-hmm. But it was a, there was no, he just kept going. Yeah. So there’s a, there’s some thank yous that he made so many sacrifices and he, he dealt with it and got through, but it also killed him. Yeah. And when I say it killed him, it didn’t kill him from the standpoint of like, he killed over, he had a great life.

He lived, you know, into his eighties and, and so on. But he had a heart attack six or seven months before I was born. He had another one at 56 years old that was a sophomore in high school. That’s the one that caused me to quit the baseball team. And then during a, during his quadruple bypass surgery, he had a stroke.

So like, geez, this is a guy who spent hi, the last 30 something years of his life, a multimillionaire with every ability to do whatever he wanted, but he was sick. Mm-hmm. He was unable to do that. Rheumatoid arthritis took away his ability to golf. Mm-hmm. And he lived on a golf course Yeah. That he built a house on so that he could golf every day.

Mm-hmm. Can you imagine the torture that that is? So, oh gosh. There’s a lot of stuff that like, um, I would love a two or three hour sit down to apologize for the way that I thought and for things that I held them to that, that they did their best on. That I, that I, I, I sh had no right to hold them to. I want to tell them that I understand, because now I have teenage boys that I understand how difficult it is to raise teenage boys, and especially as they’re becoming who they are.

And they’re not always who you want them to be. They’re not always who you believe they’re supposed to be, or you think God gave you. They, they, they have their own way of thinking and they, they become what they’re going to become. And, um, you know, there’s, there’s some of that where I’ve, you know, I’d like to, I wish I could have that conversation.

Yeah. And, and thank them for, for the grace that they gave me. I want to thank them for the tough love. Because who knows, I could have been some wallflower that just kind of wimped out. Yeah. But instead they were tough and that made me tough and resilient. And I might not be here right now if it wasn’t for that toughness Yeah.

That they instilled in me. So, um, and you know, there’s also some things I’d love to explain to them. I, I wanted, I wanted, I would love to tell them how I got, how I spiraled so bad and I, you know, can you imagine the people that you love and admire the most, only know you about 40%? The amount of lies that I kept from them.

The amount of, yeah, the, so like the people that your parents should know. You the, like your spouse and your parents should like, know you the most and like. You know, my, my spouse knows everything about, like, everything about me. Yeah. My parents knew me like 40%. Yeah. And that’s, I wish that wasn’t the case.

It, it rings true because I, you know, my dad’s still alive and whether or not he will listen to this, maybe he will, but, you know, if the amount of times he knew I skipped class in college, just stuff like that. Right. Like, oh, I was so studious. I was at the library, I was this No, I was chasing the maybe a little bit taller girls than five to five three, but yeah.

But, but teach thanks for saving, saving ’em for me. Teach their own. Yeah. No, but, uh, you know, I, I know exactly what you mean. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

I, you know, that I can’t think of, I, I mean, there’s, there’s a list of other people that I would put, but if you’re saying, if, if I had to narrow it down and like everyone, when I think of my mom and dad, everyone else falls off.

I, I, I want, I want one more hug. Yep. Yeah. You know that, that’s it. I, I want another hug. I, I, I want them to watch an episode. Yeah. I’d be like, damn, that was good. Yeah. I wanna hear that. 

Look at what you’ve created here, like, yeah. Yeah. Awesome, man. Last, final question, which you always end the episodes with, just the, you know, words of inspiration, words of advice, just how do you recommend and how do you, yourself just continue to get shit done?

Uh,

perfection is a form of procrastination. And if you are seeking perfection, uh, you will hold yourself back from all that life has to offer. The beauty of life is the scars that it gives you, you know, the, the Cindy Crawford beauty Mark, you know what I’m saying? Mm-hmm. It made her so unique and different and recognizable internationally.

Um, and I look at, I look at brands that way. I look at people in that regard. Fall in love with your differences. Um, don’t fit in, fuck fitting in.

Like stand out, be brash about standing out. Be brash about your, your, um, unique qualities. And within that there’s also a level of, um, empathy, compassion, understanding, um, and patience. That you have to have with everyone in your surroundings. And so I, I just think that if you’re gonna get shit done, you have to just take the steps and always be moving forward.

There are days that you just will not want to do it, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t take the smallest step possible so that you say that you did a little bit of it. There’s other days where you can take giant leaps and do huge things and then go do those giant things and huge things, but, but don’t have days where you don’t do take any step.

You know, you, you’ve gotta take even the smallest step and you gotta build it up. There’s a, there’s a level of, of, uh, of character and class that we have to have towards each other that I think has broken down in this world. So when I say be brash, be unique, be different, that means without negatively affecting other people like that doesn’t mean that you get to shut other people down in order for you to express your unique beliefs.

And, and like. Uh, be and do whatever you want to do, as long as it positively impacts you and your surroundings. Don’t do things because they’re brash and different, whatever, that are having a negative impact on the rest of the world or shutting down communication or, you know, yeah. Or creating, um, you know, infighting or conflict that it can’t be resolved because it can be We’ve got enough 

of that.

Yeah. 

Like, but what I am saying is like, especially for like a business or a brand, so let’s just keep it there for a second. Like, there are things at your company that are quirky, goofy things that you do. You need to lean into those and let the world know that that is the case. Yeah. Like if there’s very interesting people at your organization that have very interesting dialogue with another very interesting person at your company, maybe capture some of those moments and like lean into that.

Those are characters within the story of your business. Your business is a movie. Yeah. Let us watch it, man. It’s the Office everywhere. Yeah. Let us watch that movie. Yeah. Let us know the characters. Yeah. Let us know who the class clown is. Let us know who the, the like the unbel, like the Nikola Tesla of your company.

Like who’s the smartest person in your, in your building. Yeah. Let us know who that is. I want to, I wanna know that person. Yeah. Who’s the mom of the company. Yeah. I wanna see the mom of the company momming people into things. I wanna know that. Like I wanna see that. Yeah. I wanna know who’s the star athlete at your organization that is the best on your soft, your company softball team.

Like, I wanna see that. Yeah, I wanna know that that’s gonna cause me. To want to pay a little bit more attention to your company, at least to be aware that it, it it exists. And to stay in the game with you until I’m ready to buy. Yeah. And then while I’m doing that, I’m probably digging in and going, okay, when I’m ready to buy a copy machine, that’s who I’m gonna buy it from.

TTSG. Yeah. When I’m ready, when I’m ready to buy office, uh, supplies or whatever, uh, I’m not now, but I’m watching them. And I like, I like that person. I like that per, when I’m ready, I’m gonna buy from them. Right. Give us a look into that. So when I say perfection is a, is a type of procrastination. What I mean by that is there’s so many people that know that they should do that next step to become better in sales, but they won’t because they’re afraid that they’re gonna screw it up first.

Screw it up. That’s how you’re gonna get there. Mm-hmm. There’s people that say that they’re gonna start creating content and get on camera, but they’re not because they think, they’re like, they think they need to make the perfect post that’s gonna go viral. If your platform is linked in, you ain’t going viral.

Sorry. Like, so just get the content out there. Yeah. Get people to know you. 

But my cousin’s on there. My aunt might see me. Who 

cares? People want to, people are hesitating from starting a company podcast because like, who would host it and what would we talk about? Just get the damn thing started and get record moving.

Hit record. Like if we’re two hours at 27 minutes in, if you’re still listening to this, I’m shocked. Okay. But I know that I’m gonna have content clips from this to be able to distribute out, and it’s going to, it’s gonna create great content. If anything, what happened out of this is Eric and I just strengthened our relationship because we know each other a little bit better than we did before, and now we’ve collaborated on a different level, which means that we now are married together on a higher level.

Yeah. Which means that we’re gonna collaborate and be better within the four walls of this business. Even if you don’t watch this PA podcast and you don’t care, Eric and I just got better for doing it. A hundred percent. And was it perfect? Not even close. No, it’s not even close to perfect. So just do go after it and as long as it doesn’t hurt other people.

Yeah. Be bold. Awesome. Awesome. Well, the legendary John Morris, congrats on all the episodes thus far. Thank you all guests. A lot of great success. As you can see, this place when it was first being built was I, I would say a former shell, right? This is just awesome space. So warehouse closet. So congrats on all the success here and all the, the previous guests, I know we got a lot more lined up, so thanks for letting me just come in and.

You know, pick your brain and get some history. And I, you know, I love hearing all the stories that you’ve told. Not all obviously great stories in terms of the content of, you know, what they were, but they’re human. And I’m, I am, I am glad that you’re able to open up to us and the rest of the audience here because, you know, you’re just, you’re just the greatest guy and we love you and we’re glad you’re here, John.

And, uh, we’re looking forward to the next 50 plus episodes. We gotta have like a hundred episode celebration when we’ll go back in the warehouse or have like a big round table. Can we, can we 

golf? Yeah, absolutely. I feel like every celebration for me should just be on a golf course. 

Oh, let’s do it every single day.

Well, everybody, thanks so much for joining us. Be sure to follow, like, subscribe, all that good stuff. And again, once again, John, thank you so much, 

Eric. You have to end the podcast the way 

the podcast ends. Oh, and let me remind you, sir, you got shit done. 

Let’s go. Whoa. Woo.

Can your business handle 15% growth? If yes, you have to engage with 2020 design. They fuse data and creativity to stop the scroll, break through the noise, and grab the attention of your future customers. 2020 Design will create competitive click worthy campaigns. Design and build custom websites. Spark your social media presence and structure.

Email campaigns that get right to your audience, the decision maker. Let’s boost attention and awareness, which allows you to convert more sales. Check them [email protected]. That’s the number 20 T-W-E-N-T-Y design.com.